Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > 6th Century British/Welsh equipment Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: 6th Century British/Welsh equipment         Reply with quote

I've been trying to put together a kit for a circa 6th century Briton. I'm having a little bit of trouble tracking down good references for clothing, weapons, and armor. I don't want to rely purely on Roman influences, though I'm sure there was a good deal of Roman (or Roman-esque) equipment in use. Specifically:

The shield: I'm assuming that ingigenous Britons generally used round wooden shields, wtih and without bossing. Was there any precedent for other shapes? Again, it seems likely that some of the Roman shields were used....

The helm: I'm assuming that this would be pretty basic but I don't have any references

Anything else you guys have would also be helpful.

Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
J. Bedell




Location: Maryland, USA
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A large oval shield is accurate for the time period. As for the helm a simple roman helmet would be accurate. Many so called barbarians of this period wore helms that were stolen from romans or picked from their corpses. Also here is a link that explains some earlier helms that would have been used in updated forms in the time period you specified. http://www.redrampant.com/roma/gaulhelms.html

Maybe someone with a little more roman knowledge could help out.

-James

The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

not the roman helms we know and love would be good.

they changed a lot after the 3rd cent.

http://www.fectio.org.uk/fectio.htm is a great source for late roman. and it shows the influence on the helms. spangenhelms are in coming into their own during this time. but not like we know them.

http://111935.aceboard.fr/111935-543-1194-0-C...slavie.htm kinda shows an example
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 447

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gwrando Meistr Shaw,
I have just finished a welsh figurine of the period you mention. The sculptor's rendition shows a round shield with boss, as the norse would also use, though more ancient archeological finds of pre-roman occupation show oblong and oval shapes.
The arthurian period is as yet quite silent as far as I know, though the saisson invaders do have the benefit of a grave find of major importance at Sutton Hoo... now, as briton was fighting saisson on a daily basis back then, why would there not be some form of emulation in the armament? After all, the Romans themselves appropriated the gallic helms and adapted, and also improved on them ( give credit where it is due boyo, that is also a welsh trait...), so I would be inclined to believe that those welsh warriors who did wear armor would have had access to spangens similar to the sutton hoo finds, or wear whatever leftover roman gear was bequeathed to them. After Badden Hill there would have been quite a lot of available saisson gear to be divided up amongst the victorious britons, and I'm quite sure that our welsh ancestors wouldn't have been too shy about using whatever could be useful, seeing as how the saissons were appropriating the land and all. The sculpted figure shows a warrior with spear and also a spatha type sword with a fairly high belt, in other words the sword did not drag at the side as we are accustomed to seeing in either medieval or renaissance style but rather had the hilt higher than the navel and to the right( slightly reminiscent of a Sam Brown military belt), as you will see with ancient depictions of other celtic ancestors like the Gauls. The clothing is rustic, with cape and fur lined vest, tunic slightly above the knee and trousers with wraps around the calfs to the knee.
Now these are the dark ages, so named for the lack of documents to help us moderns out in deciphering what really happened back there, but Sutton Hoo does shed some light, as does previous gallic finds and also the roman interlude which did last some three hundred years, so your kit can wink at one or the other without being overly heretical, but nevertheless, as with my figurine, without pretending to be 100% historically accurate... I do believe Edward of England burned all the damn photographs after having Daffydd drawn and quartered ( this was his practice run , later perfected against William Wallace the scot). Hope this helps . Yn iach!
Jean-Carle Hudon

Bon coeur et bon bras
View user's profile Send private message
Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Wed 24 May, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Bedell wrote:
A large oval shield is accurate for the time period. As for the helm a simple roman helmet would be accurate. Many so called barbarians of this period wore helms that were stolen from romans or picked from their corpses. Also here is a link that explains some earlier helms that would have been used in updated forms in the time period you specified. http://www.redrampant.com/roma/gaulhelms.html

Maybe someone with a little more roman knowledge could help out.

-James


Or as is more likely vice-versa, i.e. the Romans wore helmets based on "Barbarian" (Sassanid, Germanic, Sarmatian) designs.

I would go with 5th-6th century AD Roman equipment as being the closest to what you want.

Late Roman helmet
View user's profile Send private message
Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Wed 24 May, 2006 6:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm...this is about what I'd expected. A mix of roman/saxon influences is what would make sense.

Jean-Carle-Could you post a couple of pictures of your sculpture?

Thanks guys! If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Alan F




Location: Scotland
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat 27 May, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have a look at these nice people: www.durolitum.co.uk
I re-enact therefore I am
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > 6th Century British/Welsh equipment
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum