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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 06 May, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Some test cutting vids with mini-reviews         Reply with quote

Got together with Jason Elrod today and did some cutting. We took a few quick videos while we were out... nothing much, as we were clearly more focused on cutting than video taking Happy , but thought I'd share.

(there's actually a couple vids I will share later of two of Gus's swords... but Jason's supposed to share his views first, so I'll let him do that before I post those, or post my comments on them. That's my way of prodding him to actually do it. Happy )

By the way, as tempted as I am to let people believe that's a concrete block we were cutting down onto, it's just a big block of styrofoam.


This was with Jason's new Armart Swiss Saber that he bought off of forumite Karl Knisely. I can't believe I didn't snatch this piece up when I had the chance, it's fantastic! I'm very jealous that Jason got it, but at least I can visit it. I'm not used to swords with such dramatic curvature, which meant my sense of distance was off during my cuts: I kept "gutting" the targets rather than cutting them completely in half. But man, oh, man, does that thing slice beautifully.

Here's another video of it in action, where I was more determined to cut the whole target rather than just let it die painfully:


Next up is a brief interrupted clip of me with my Henry V from A&A. That's a real "handy" little guy. I'm a big fan of it.


Here're two with the Albion Talhoffer, one of my favorite handling longswords of all time. For an Oakeshott Type XVa, it cuts surprisingly well, though as one may expect from the type, it doesn't cut nearly as well as more dedicated cutters. Still, it holds it's own quite nicely.

The target is at a low angle, so you may notice that my cuts are definately adjusted for this. Nice practice for fighting 10 year olds, I guess. Happy


And a second:


Enjoy!

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Sat 06 May, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like you had much fun! I love the sound of that saber's slice! Cool
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill, if it's just a block of styrofoam, then why in the first Talhoffer video did it appear that you were concerned about your sword connecting with the foam? Granted, you don't want to destroy your support for the milk cartons, but it looks like your ability to cut effectively was hamstrung by the fact that you were trying to avoid any impact at all.
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Alexander Hinman




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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nifty. It looks like you were going to complete a second cut with your Henry V, but the video ended before you could.

And where'd you get such a large block of styrofoam? Eek!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Bill, if it's just a block of styrofoam, then why in the first Talhoffer video did it appear that you were concerned about your sword connecting with the foam? Granted, you don't want to destroy your support for the milk cartons, but it looks like your ability to cut effectively was hamstrung by the fact that you were trying to avoid any impact at all.


Because if I did do full swings downwards we wouldn't have had a cutting stand. So instead I did some half-hearted cuts into pflug on a stand that was already too low for me. Happy

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am interested in your assessment of the Talhoffer's edge retention and cutting ability. I understand that it is not a dedicated cutter, but would I like to do test cutting with a Ringeck and expect it to be similar in blade section.

Have you cut any sapplings with the Talhoffer? If so, how does its edge hold up?

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexander Hinman wrote:
Nifty. It looks like you were going to complete a second cut with your Henry V, but the video ended before you could.


Yeah, these were not well planned videos. Happy My still camera can do limited video capability, and we were cutting, so Jason filmed a couple. Had I put some actual thought into it, I could have actually done something more educational, but oh well. Big Grin

Quote:
And where'd you get such a large block of styrofoam? Eek!


It belonged to Jason's father. It's an archery target.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
I am interested in your assessment of the Talhoffer's edge retention and cutting ability. I understand that it is not a dedicated cutter, but would I like to do test cutting with a Ringeck and expect it to be similar in blade section.

Have you cut any sapplings with the Talhoffer? If so, how does its edge hold up?


No saplings, I've primarily cut bottles, pumpkins and melons. Nothing abusive to the edge, so it's no surprise that the edge is still as sharp as ever. It's not a dedicated cutter, but it's still very effective in the cutting department. Perhaps moreso than what many would expect from a XVa.

I'd practiced a few zwerchauen with the Talhoffer, as well as with other longsword. The zwerchau involves striking horizontally with the back edge with the sword making a "halo" shaped cut above my head. These cuts have a lot of impact with them but not as much "slice" as other types of cuts. Using the Talhoffer tended to knock the targets off more often than not, while other more dediciated cutters had no problem. This was no surprise, given the type of blade the Talhoffer has. Really, that's more of an example of how backyard cutting against plastic bottles is a very limited way of testing martial skill, as realistically that cut would have killed an unarmoured person. Cutting's just one aspect of study, which needs to be combined with various other methods of training, but by itself proves very little.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At the bottom of this ARMA page there are some videos of test cutting with the Talhoffer. These are more substantial targets. There seems to be a problem with the file of the pell striking (I have been unable to open the file.) They do not comment on how the edge held up. If it had fared poorly, I would have thought that there would be some mention of it.

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/NTCvids/testing...erials.htm

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Joseph C.




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PostPosted: Sun 07 May, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Some test cutting vids with mini-reviews         Reply with quote

Quote:
Nice practice for fighting 10 year olds, I guess.


Or dwarves. Wink

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Greg Griggs




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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote: "Cutting's just one aspect of study, which needs to be combined with various other methods of training, but by itself proves very little."

Very wise words. As much as I enjoy cutting, it's quite obvious that your form is much better than I could ever dream of because you have studied all the aspects, and it shows. These are the things I look forward to doing as we study more in-depth in our little part of the world.
Looks like you had a lot of fun, and thank you for sharing the vids with the rest of us.

Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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