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John M





Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: A Question On Axes         Reply with quote

Please forgive me, as I am sure this will sound like a rather dumb question. I have always been interested in bladed weapons, but I have only recently started to research their histories and backgrounds.

I have been researching battle-axes and war hammers as far as design, manufacturing and the eras in which they were popular, and I have become familiar with the most common examples. However there is one I could have sworn I saw a long time ago in a book, but I have not found one in my recent searches. It is possible I simply remember it from a role playing game manual.

So, here is my question: Have you ever seen a weapon with the blade of an Axe on one side, and the face of a War Hammer on the other? If so, what was it called and do you know of where a picture exists?

It may be that I just imagined this weapon, but it seems like something that would be useful. But then, as I said, I am an amateur on this subject.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A couple of these weapons can be seen on this page:

http://www.truefork.org/Photography/Burgundia...pons_3.php

There are better examples around, especially in Waldman's book. The hammer head typically is of the "meat tenderizer" design, with faceted surface for gripping plate armour, and often is quite large. See also Blood Red Roses.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Thu 13 Apr, 2006 1:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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John M





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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank You! Those are a bit longer than I envisioned, but some excellent examples.
I had just discovered this forum, and after posting this topic I looked in the 'Albums' section and found an excellent example of what I had in mind in the "hafted weapons" section.
Serves me right for not exploring more before I posted. Blush
This looks to be a great site, and I plan on exploring it a great deal in the coming weeks!
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure the axes shown in the linked image are mounted higher than the armour--in other words, they're typical poleaxe length rather than halberd length, as suggested by the photo. If you like these weapons, you should get Hafted Weapons in Medieval and Renaissance Europe. It's a goldmine of information.

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=9004144099

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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John M





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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That looks like a great text, but I will have to save a bit to get it. It definitely looks worth the price though!
I am also very interested in the "Blood Red Roses" book you listed. I will probably pick that up first.
Thanks for the information, this will be a big help in my research.
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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.myArmoury.com/pat_othr_lutel_20012.html?5

or perhaps something like this? Three Quarters of the way down the page amongst the Percussion weapons.

http://www.truefork.org/Photography/Gent_Neyt_collection.php

Anyone have any information on the axe in the above link?
Origin? Stats (length of haft, axe head length & width, hammer length etc)?

Thanks

Danny
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Alexander Ren




Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arms & Armor makes a reproduction of this type of Pole Axe. http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole010.html
I don't own one yet but it is well spoken of by others who participate on this forum.

Alex
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Valeriy Rog




Location: Ukraine, Kyiv
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Apr, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John, you mean poleaxe as the knight's weapon or the onfantry axe for the infantry of mid 15 cent.
http://deepguard.nm.ru/Photo/kulpole/13.1.jpg
left is early 15 infantry axe without dague and "round" blade and the second is the poleaxe with dague and streight blade
http://deepguard.nm.ru/Photo/Lutsk%202005%202.jpeg this for the same infantry axe
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George Hill




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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As long as we are on the subject of the poleaxe, does anyone have any good pictures of the the buttspikes of historical peices? That's to say the 'queue'? I've learned that jabbing with this spike was an important part of poleaxe play, so I'd very much like to see some of them.
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Nicola Tal





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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Axe         Reply with quote

Big Grin


 Attachment: 38.46 KB
123w.jpg

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Shawn Shaw




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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok...I'll fess up to being a little bit confused. Do we have 2 different weapons, both called a "pole axe" (and various spellings thereof)?

I see that we have a long polearm version, probably for infantry and that we also have a shorter version used by dismounted knights.


Are these both known as pole axes? Is there a way to distinguish between them without resorting to "long" and "short"?
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Nicola Tal





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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Interesting version         Reply with quote

Interesting version (Scythians)
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Valeriy Rog




Location: Ukraine, Kyiv
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Shaw, the pole axe differs from an axe by the construction of a pole itself. The poleaxes had poles of several parts assembled with bolts

Others weapons with solid poles are consedered to be just axes
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Folkert van Wijk




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting version         Reply with quote

Nicola Tal wrote:
Interesting version (Scythians)


Scythians?? Like those Horse riding steppe people from somewhere around 500 BC??

Hm interresting...

can someone tell me more about these axes....?

Folkert

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr, 2006 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting version         Reply with quote

Nicola Tal wrote:
Interesting version (Scythians)


So what is the size of this axe ? Either it's small and incredibly thin / slim or it has loss a lot of it's mass through corrosion or if large it's actually a huge pickaxe.

With axes weapon or tool or both is always a question: Most axes can be used as a weapon in a pinch even when of specialized design and too heavy for practical fighting use like very big carpentry axes like one I have that must weight at least 10 pounds. Those axes made to be just weapons usually don't work well as tools and look it.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeff Hsieh





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: A Question On Axes         Reply with quote

John M wrote:
Please forgive me, as I am sure this will sound like a rather dumb question. I have always been interested in bladed weapons, but I have only recently started to research their histories and backgrounds.

I have been researching battle-axes and war hammers as far as design, manufacturing and the eras in which they were popular, and I have become familiar with the most common examples. However there is one I could have sworn I saw a long time ago in a book, but I have not found one in my recent searches. It is possible I simply remember it from a role playing game manual.

So, here is my question: Have you ever seen a weapon with the blade of an Axe on one side, and the face of a War Hammer on the other? If so, what was it called and do you know of where a picture exists?

It may be that I just imagined this weapon, but it seems like something that would be useful. But then, as I said, I am an amateur on this subject.


Hello John,

Lutel makes some weapons which fit your description. Their website is www.lutel.cz. I have no idea how historical it is, but here is an image:

Edit: actually, this is the same one Danny posted



 Attachment: 51 KB
20012.jpg

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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hammeraxes have been used since the stone age. It began with a very simple design:


By the late stone age, the form had developed into something like this:




Direct copies of these stone axes were made in copper and even bronze, initially with no change in form (in fact, stone copies of the metal copies were also made, complete with carefully crafted cast seams...). The general design, an ax-blade backed by a hammer-head, remained in use with variations in shape for as long as axes were relevant as weapons of war. After all, lengthening the back of an ax-blade into a more efficient striking surface costs little additional material and takes nothing away from the functionality of the ax - in fact, sometimes it actually improves the weapon's handling. Examples are found in all shapes and sizes other types of ax are found in, from small hand-axes doubling as tools to seven-foot polearms.

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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