Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > One of the worst fencing articles I have ever read Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Allen Johnson





Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 29 books

Posts: 198

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject: One of the worst fencing articles I have ever read         Reply with quote

I'm preparing a resonce to this but I'm sure many of you could do far better than me. I printed it out and have pages of rebuttal before his page 3/15.

http://www.fencingonline.com/academy/duellingtofencing.htm
View user's profile Send private message
R Smith




Location: MI
Joined: 09 Nov 2004

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: One of the worst fencing articles I have ever read         Reply with quote

Allen Johnson wrote:
I'm preparing a resonce to this but I'm sure many of you could do far better than me. I printed it out and have pages of rebuttal before his page 3/15.

http://www.fencingonline.com/academy/duellingtofencing.htm


Personally I would not know even where to start.... other then pretty much rewriting the entire article so it would have some semblance of truth. Disgusting what some people give out as fact. Mad
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have written some equally inaccurate stuff myself, just not in such high percentage and overall quantity. Give the poor guy some credit for at least gathering a nice assortment of illustrations, a couple of which I have not seen before.

Does any one else subscribe to the theory that David used a sling against Golilath, not a sword as indicated in the article?

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Alexander Hinman




Location: washington, dc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Reading list: 50 books

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
Does any one else subscribe to the theory that David used a sling against Golilath, not a sword as indicated in the article?


He may not have killed Goliath with the sword, but he certainly cut off the corpse's head with Goliath's sword. See 1 Samuel 17:50 and 51.

In any case, the article is a load of tripe.

One particular thing that bothers me about the article is how close the author seems to come to some sort of realisation (the pictures from Marozzo's manual suggest as much) but are soon brought down by misunderstanding and ignorance.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"The rough and basic fighting tactics of mounted knights in heavy armor, hacking at each other in medieval Europe with two-handed swords reflected the reign of "brute" force in the life of that time. The strongest arm and sword won the day, as did the strongest baron or the most warlike king. Those were the days of crushing blows, when a knight's superiority depended on his power of wearing stronger armor and delivering heavier, more powerful blows, when strength was considered a skill. "

Where's myArmoury's throwing up emoticon?
View user's profile Send private message
W. R. Reynolds




Location: Ramona, CA
Joined: 07 Dec 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First part reads like a gamer wrote it. Can't comment on the rest as my area of interest and what little expertise I have ends at 1480.
Bill

"No matter who wins the rat race.......they are still a rat."
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Spitler




Location: PA
Joined: 07 Aug 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh...
...this guy needs to be locked in a room with someone from Schola. Evil
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Comment on the article, not the people. Making fun of others and acting elitist doesn't really shine a good light on you or our site here.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
"The rough and basic fighting tactics of mounted knights in heavy armor, hacking at each other in medieval Europe with two-handed swords reflected the reign of "brute" force in the life of that time. The strongest arm and sword won the day, as did the strongest baron or the most warlike king. Those were the days of crushing blows, when a knight's superiority depended on his power of wearing stronger armor and delivering heavier, more powerful blows, when strength was considered a skill. "

Where's myArmoury's throwing up emoticon?


Not only is it wrong, but it's an unattributed quote from Egerton Castle's Schools and Masters of Fence.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Allen Johnson





Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 29 books

Posts: 198

PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It really sounds like a bad case of sport fencing-itis. The idea that anything not reflected in todays modern sport is awkward, heavy and brutish. He obviously has not seen anything prior to the 1500's. In fact he says, "The oldest work on fencing was written in 1531 by Antonio Manciolino, of Bologna, this was followed five years later by Achille Marozzo..." and then, "Achillie Marozzo is generally looked upon as the first writer of note on the art of fencing." I'm just confused as to how someone can find a copy of Manciolino and Marozzo but some how miss the myriad of manuals before that? Id would be more difficult to avoid them than not! But yes, every single paragraph is jam packed with mis information.
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathan Blair




Location: Hanover, PA
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Likes: 3 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 479

PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What someone (well someone more knowledgeable in WMA than I anyways) needs to do is write an article for this fencing website that point by point refutes every bit of misinformation in the article. That way, instead of just a few people on this site knowing that Mr. Worsfield doesn't know what he is talking about, the whole world will be able to see that Mr. Worsfield doesn't know what he is talking about and, more importantly, why.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
View user's profile Send private message
Allen Johnson





Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 29 books

Posts: 198

PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have sent a short note to the website telling them that this article is a mess and if they want I'd be willing to send a list or reasons why. I'll see if its even wanted first before I go through all the trouble.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen Johnson wrote:
I have sent a short note to the website telling them that this article is a mess and if they want I'd be willing to send a list or reasons why. I'll see if its even wanted first before I go through all the trouble.


I have a feeling you won't get a response Allen. I think the best thing that we can do is rather than try to change silly webpages like that, we can do our best to personally educate people whom we come in contact with about the realities of HEMA. In time, basic knowledge of HEMA will become so wide spread that people will look at sites of that sort and think that they are utterly absurd.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 445

PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G'day Mates,
the article has to be read with an Australian accent, with Crocodile Dundee intonations, especially on passages such as: '' During the Middle Ages swords often reached great lengths.... (followed by) ... With the advent of gunpowder during the 13th century, the six foot, two handed sword and heavy armor was discarded...'', Without the accent, it doesn't make sense, but imagine Crocodile Dundee explaining this on the streets of NY City, a bit like in his famous scene dealing with street kids ( That's not a knife, THIS is a knife) , and all of a sudden all is clear, as is the gentleman's claim that he is a Maître d'Armes, again, with a local accent... you really don't want to argue with the fellow, just wish him well in his pursuit of a deeper understanding of the history of arms and armor. He obviously has an interest for the subject....

Cheers.
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,145

PostPosted: Tue 11 Apr, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
I think the best thing that we can do is rather than try to change silly webpages like that, we can do our best to personally educate people whom we come in contact with about the realities of HEMA. In time, basic knowledge of HEMA will become so wide spread that people will look at sites of that sort and think that they are utterly absurd.


I tend to agree. In fact, I strongly agree.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > One of the worst fencing articles I have ever read
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum