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Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 5:16 am    Post subject: Strange sword from the Fillipo Vadi Manual         Reply with quote

Does anyone know anything about these unusual swords in the Vadi Manual..."Gladitoria", etc. They seem to have a spear tip and a spike-pommel with sharp or very pointy cross guards. After I enlarged the image, I could clearly see coventional binding on the grips. I couldnt find any reference to these specificaly in the Vadi text. I have recently finished going through all the pages in this 'Historic Arms' forum and I cant remember seeing anything on these, but I could have easily missed it as there are so many postings.
Does anyone know of any surviving originals ? Has anyone made one of these ? What are they called ? All the other weapons in the illustrations seem to be conventional fighting arms and not for Judicial combat or Tourney.
If anyone has any other reference, text, illustrations or photos it would be greatly appreciated.
I value all replies and your input. Thank you !!



 Attachment: 80.03 KB
Fillipo Vadi-jv2.jpg

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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Strange sword from the Fillipo Vadi Manual         Reply with quote

Merv Cannon wrote:
Does anyone know anything about these unusual swords in the Vadi Manual..."Gladitoria", etc. They seem to have a spear tip and a spike-pommel with sharp or very pointy cross guards. After I enlarged the image, I could clearly see coventional binding on the grips. I couldnt find any reference to these specificaly in the Vadi text. I have recently finished going through all the pages in this 'Historic Arms' forum and I cant remember seeing anything on these, but I could have easily missed it as there are so many postings.
Does anyone know of any surviving originals ? Has anyone made one of these ? What are they called ? All the other weapons in the illustrations seem to be conventional fighting arms and not for Judicial combat or Tourney.
If anyone has any other reference, text, illustrations or photos it would be greatly appreciated.
I value all replies and your input. Thank you !!


I'm sorry, but this answer will be hazy as heck...

I believe Vadi states that these swords are to be used in armoured combat only. The unusual protrusions on the crossguard and pommel are for stabbing, but are potentially hazardous if you do not wear armour yourself; you may end up poking yourself with them.

The end of the blad puzzles me though, they remind me slightly of hunting swords where you have a spearpoint-blade with a pin through it at the end to stop whatever you are hunting to continue into your body...

I don't know a name for these, but I believe they should be considered specialised weapons, possibly only for duels. On the battlefield, you are going to encounter opponents without heavy armour, and I would rather have a sword that is geared towards both cutting and thrusting in that case. But for armoured duels, the swords depicted would probably be quite effective.

Johan Schubert Moen
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Wolfgang Armbruster





Joined: 03 Apr 2005

Posts: 322

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You'll find similar weapons (albeit not that strange) in Talhoffer. Some of the swords depicted in the Thott edition feature nasty spike-crossguards as well as pommels made for stabbing.
I really doubt that that such weapons were used very often, even in duels. These are really specialized weapons, not suited for the battle-field or similar activities Wink

There are (as far as I know) only a few surviving examples of specialized swords for armoured duelling and tournaments.And these don't look like the swords depicted in the manuals.
Here's one of these babys:



 Attachment: 6.9 KB
16c_tournament_sword_a.jpg
16th century tournament sword
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Iain Norman





Joined: 14 Jul 2005

Posts: 67

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wolfgang,

Could you possibly give me a reference for that picture? I'm very interested to learn more about these "tournament" swords. Big Grin If you have pictures of any others examples I'd love to see them.
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Wolfgang Armbruster





Joined: 03 Apr 2005

Posts: 322

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Iain Norman wrote:
Wolfgang,

Could you possibly give me a reference for that picture? I'm very interested to learn more about these "tournament" swords. Big Grin If you have pictures of any others examples I'd love to see them.


IIRC I found this picture in a thread here and saved it on my HD. I think that thread was on those tournament swords, but I can't find it anymore Sad
There were more pics of such swords in that thread. All of them had this waisted profile to make half-swording easier.
Definitely tournament only swords. Don't know their origin anymore, but I guess they're either from Austria or Germany.
Maybe someone else can give us a link to that thread.


EDIT: Found the thread. Here you go: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...lfswording
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Iain Norman





Joined: 14 Jul 2005

Posts: 67

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wonderful, that thread looks like it'll make a very helpful read. I appreciate you finding it for me. Happy

I find these swords to be very pleasing from an aesthetic point of view.
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Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Reading list: 13 books

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Foot-Tourney Swords         Reply with quote

And I found another reference in my Sword file under 'Foot-Tourney'.........


 Attachment: 53.59 KB
DSCF1847.JPG

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Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Rain-Guards ?         Reply with quote

PS.......Why would a foot-tourney sword have a rain-guard ? That is a rain guard on the bottom drawing isnt it ? Did they have scabbards for these swords ?
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Joachim Nilsson





Joined: 29 Sep 2003

Posts: 510

PostPosted: Tue 28 Feb, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Merv, those swords depicted in Vadi are specialized weapons for judicical combat.

Best regards,
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 818

PostPosted: Tue 28 Feb, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wolfgang and Merv, thanks for those cool attachments. Talk about something you could definitely half-sword with! Razz They certainly do look like something that Talhoffer would come up with.
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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