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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Feb, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Albion's Price Increase         Reply with quote

Administrator Note: This post and its replies were split from Albion's Announcement regarding them entering the European market. The discussion turned into a tangent about prices and, specifically, their announced price increase. Whilt it's a perfectly acceptible topic of discussion, this tangent was off-topic to Albion's marketing announcement. It needs to be separate. The "Maker's" forum is meant to offer company's the ability to market their products and increase exposure. The members of this site are encouraged to keep each topic in that forum on-topic to the maker's intent.

The original post from Bob follows:


I am very lucky, I live in the western suburbs of Chicago, I have Kult of Athena 17 miles from me, they have several beautiful Albion swords in stock, I can also drive up to New Glarus, WI. It's not that far, my only problem is a lack of money right now and since I just bought 2 Arms & Armor swords this past month, my wife would probably kill me! Laughing Out Loud

I've heard the price increase is going to be 10% to 15% on all swords, my personal opinion is that this is too steep a price, but that is only a personal opinion, their swords are beautiful in every respect, but I personally cannot justify the new prices. Maybe I am out of line, but it is my opinion, which is only that, an opinion.

Sincerely,

Bob
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Feb, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Bob: I wouldn't say that the price increase is out of line as far as value for the money is concerned. It is to be seen if the increase in price will mean fewer orders if people can't afford them.

One can decide that one can't afford the higher price and that is perfectly valid but that doesn't mean that the product is objectively overpriced.

Albion has the options of increasing the price to reflect the amount of work and cost of producing these wonderful swords or they could start cutting corners to bring their cost down or stop developing / researching new models, something that must be paid for with current revenues: Each sword we buy is actually in part paying for the development of new models of swords.

For any company, increasing prices is a delicate balancing act of keeping their present clients happy and being able to stay in business: If you loose some sales your total sales must generate more income per unit, if you keep price low but make no profits you won't stay in business for long and if you overdo your price increase you can't sell enough of your product to survive.

No criticism Bob: Just adding my two cents worth or my 10% to 15 % worth. Cool Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 05 Feb, 2006 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Feb, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are valid points and I did contemplate them, I'd be accepting of 5% to 8%, I personally think 10% is pushing the limits. All things in business for the most part are in fact passed off to the customer, this is true and just plain common sense.

I have also written several posts expressing my appreciation of these 1st class sword companies, just last week in another forum site I posted a new thread wherein I stated that bladesmiths have a "Right" to make money and so do these very fine sword companies who make available to us the finest swords that can be had. Absolutely, I support the right of people to make money, you do not get a Mercedes with Ford money!

It is not a matter of me being out priced, it is a matter of what I am willing to accept on principle of what I deem to be reasonable. That is purely a personal choice and I have a problem with a 15% price increase, however I am open to an explanation of such an increase and if I find it a valid one then I would be understanding of it of course.

Sincerely,

Bob
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Feb, 2006 9:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob;

I guess the 10% to 15% might seem like a big sudden increase, and maybe it is ? Or, maybe they kept their price lower for longer than they should have and maybe had to make up for lost time.

The same increase spread over three 5% increases once every 6 months might have been easier to " sneak by ". Razz Laughing Out Loud

But I tend to think Albion would NOT try to get one past us in a " sneaky way ".

( Edited: BELOW no longer applies to this Topic as the administrators have now split the above into it's own topic: I am not deleting, below, to avoid confusion but please continue with the new topic .

Oh, we should go back to the original point of the topic about opening a European office. Big Grin

So will swords eventually be put together over there ? Repair services ? At the very least getting one's sword without having to deal with " customs " should be a plus even if the cost is about the same, delivery of in stock items should be faster.
( Well not my problem / joy dealing with European Customs clearance, but I wanted to get this topic back to stuff they, over there, might really want to know. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 3:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

10-15% doesn't seem too bad to me at all, having watched manufacturers jump hundreds of dollars in price before. I honestly expected something closer to 15-20%.

-GLL
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We'll see when it hits... I can definitely imagine it'll affect my decisions, simply by knocking some borderline cases right out of my league (hey, I'm a student, I eat on a budget).
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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David Etienne




Location: Ittre, Belgium
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think this price increase may in fact stimulate the second-hand market : more people will be forced to sell one of their swords in order to buy a new one and in definitive this can be profitable for everyone.

Wait and see...

Cheers,

David
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

10% increase -- that's OK. I believe there is another swordmaker who is about to raise his prices by this amount.

15% increase -- that's pushing it, in my opinion. I'll still buy things from them, but maybe not as many things as I otherwise would have.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's something I've wondered: during times when Albion has offered $100 off sales on their swords, has there been a significant increase in orders such that the sales are economically viable, or could this also, in part, have contributed to the current rise in prices?
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't see this as a big deal. Every sword company does it sooner or later. Heck even non-sword companies do it sooner or later. Sure its a bit inconvenient for my budgeting, but it happens.

Besides another vendor just announced a price increase this morning which seems to be flying completely under the radar.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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Eric Nower




Location: Upstate NY
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The thing we all have to remember is Albion and other sword companys cannot control the price of steel. They use the steel to make a product, and when the price of steel jumps I'm sure they don't like it either. It's not somthing they like to hear, because it means they have to pass the increase on the the consumer. It's tough...jump too much and it'll cost you, not enough and it costs you just as well. Worried They're in a tough spot too. Just my thoughts Happy
May God have mercy on my enemies, for I shall have none.
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's not the best news for anyone. On the other hand, I understand that it's sometimes nessesary in order for a company to profit. I'm sure the expenses such as materials, building maintenance, salaries, insurance, ect. can be quite difficult. Albion is also fairly new at this so they will need to wade through those growing pains. I guess it's the nature of buisness but unfortunately with todays economy many of our paychecks aren't growing with it Sad
Gary Grzybek
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Joachim Nilsson





Joined: 29 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I hardly see 10% as a big deal. Take for instance the Knecht: 10% off $1,150 is $115. Not that big of a change IMO. I'd rather shell out ten percent more and keep Albion where they should be: churning out excellent swords, than to see them faulter due to economic difficulties.

Besides, if the prices are too hard to swallow there is always payment plans available.

Even at a 15% price increase; the opportunity to buy a PJ-designed sword at a fraction of the price it would cost to buy a commissioned PJ sword is too good to miss out on.


Last edited by Joachim Nilsson on Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ralph Rudolph




Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well - first let's see what the increase really is, rather than discuss rumours...

Second - I must say after buying my first two Albion swords (admittedly cheaper in their recent sale) - the quality and their service really is stunning! OK, they are in an "elevated" price range and you'll expect quality, but you almost get a custom piece for your money. I really wish them not only to stay in business but to give us much more of those beautiful swords - and expand their business. As Jean said, R&D costs money as does business expansion (now to Europe).
I am willing to pay for that, as I will profit from it in future.

What it all boils down to is waiting 10-15% longer in time until I have saved the money for the next sword Wink
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ralph Rudolph wrote:
[...]you almost get a custom piece for your money.


Amen to that!
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albion's items are already priced outside of my own comfort zone. The price increase will make them completely unobtainable to me. I suppose I'm happy I'm locked in on a few models with long-standing preorders.

Having said that, Albion's choices are their own. If they're reaching the sales numbers they need to reach, then all power to them. If price increases don't drastically change those numbers, then all power to them. I suspect they know their market better than we do. Happy

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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

However I am open to an explanation of such an increase and if I find it a valid one then I would be understanding of it of course.


Bob
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
However I am open to an explanation of such an increase and if I find it a valid one then I would be understanding of it of course.

Out of curiousity, why do you think you're in a position to require an explanation? Are you even a customer of Albion's?

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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not "yet"! Just a matter of time though as I have said they have several swords that I like a lot but it's the lack of abundance of money at this particular time.

Thanks

Bob
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgot the other question you posed to me.

I was just curious as to why the increase was that high, but having just learned a few things about the cost of energy and steel increase as well as other considerations such as cost of living increase, my questions have been answered.

Bob
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