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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Wooden wasters and armour         Reply with quote

I am trying to find longswords which can be used with full force without messing up my expensive armour. I am currently using rattan-longsword for fighting practice, but im getting very tired of the lack of realism in these. I have been looking at wooden-wasters like those supplied at Purpleheart and they seem much closer to the real thing, but i am not sure if they can take the punishment of armoured fighting. So if anyone has any experience with this please write and share.
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Wooden wasters and armour         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
I am trying to find longswords which can be used with full force without messing up my expensive armour. I am currently using rattan-longsword for fighting practice, but im getting very tired of the lack of realism in these. I have been looking at wooden-wasters like those supplied at Purpleheart and they seem much closer to the real thing, but i am not sure if they can take the punishment of armoured fighting. So if anyone has any experience with this please write and share.



A waster would probably work fine although any sharp points in the armour may chew up the wood somewhat. I think it would be worth a try.

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Wooden wasters and armour         Reply with quote

Hmm ok. Are these wasters able to be smacked at eachother with full force like rattan-swords?
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Wooden wasters and armour         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
Hmm ok. Are these wasters able to be smacked at eachother with full force like rattan-swords?


Yes, but just as Gary said, the edges of the armour will start chewing into the wood, and eventually they'll break.

What kind of armour are you wearing? You may want to look into aluminum wasters, such as those sold here:

www.swordcrafts.com

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I meant besides smacking at armour, do they stand up to the occational edge-to-edge full force hits?

Yes i have been looking at aluminum swords, but im afraid they will dent the armour if used roughly, or? We tend to practice on the "force-side" more then on the "technique side"..(aiming for battlefields more then duels)
Armour; pourpoint, rivited maille hauberk, steel arms, steel legs, sallet, bevor, gauntlets.

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
I meant besides smacking at armour, do they stand up to the occational edge-to-edge full force hits?


Oh, definately, they'll handle that.

Quote:
Yes i have been looking at aluminum swords, but im afraid they will dent the armour if used roughly, or? We tend to practice on the "force-side" more then on the technique side..
Armour; pourpoint, rivited maille hauberk, steel arms, steel legs, sallet, bavor, gauntlets.


Well, I don't really wear full harness when bouting, so I may not be the best to reply. The aluminum, being softer than steel with wider edges, will do less damage than a steel blunt. But they do give scratches and scuffs to my gauntlets, and the edges of the steel cross guards get dinged up.

I was just curious about the armour because if you'd said gambeson and mail, I would have said don't worry about it. Happy

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I think i will try the wood swords then possibly advance to aluminum later.

I used to use just a jack and maille, then my friend did a missplaced (or rightplaced depending on how you see it..) mordschlag and i broke my arm...

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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W. R. Reynolds




Location: Ramona, CA
Joined: 07 Dec 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W.

I used to fight with rattan and then graduated to steel using unsharpened Del Tin and Lutel swords. I think that what you will find is that a wooden waster has no better cross section for hitting plate than a rattan sword, both will produce heavy dents in armour. It would be akin to hitting your armour with a baseball bat. Steel swords having a narrower hitting surface will still dent the armour (plate) but not as much and have more of a tendency to skid off. Keep in mind that you in all probability are not going to stand still for a static blow test and that moving into or away from blows can have a force reducing effect on them ( the ones that get through your guards).

Bill

"No matter who wins the rat race.......they are still a rat."
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jan, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well that was an interesting post. A rattan sword surely IS a baseballbat in my experience, and i have gotten several deep dents in my armour, especially the gauntlets. But i thought that it would not happen with wooden wasters since they have more of a real edge. Further investigations will proceed..
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Sun 29 Jan, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
I meant besides smacking at armour, do they stand up to the occational edge-to-edge full force hits?

Yes i have been looking at aluminum swords, but im afraid they will dent the armour if used roughly, or? We tend to practice on the "force-side" more then on the "technique side"..(aiming for battlefields more then duels)
Armour; pourpoint, rivited maille hauberk, steel arms, steel legs, sallet, bevor, gauntlets.




As long as you maintain them a waster can last for years. I still have one from 5 years ago.

I never tried aluminum since there's plenty of decent steel trainers available. Call me old fashioned Big Grin

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Jan, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gary Grzybek wrote:
I never tried aluminum since there's plenty of decent steel trainers available. Call me old fashioned Big Grin


Heh, I only just made the transition from steel to aluminum. I used to not like them at all... turns out I just handled the wrong aluminums!

Now, for what it's worth, I think my A&A fechterspiel is a superior product. Handles beautifully and slightly more realistically (steel and aluminum have a very subtle difference in feel at the bind), and the edges, while not quite as wide, are still pretty wide. A couple of my students have these, and I think they are worth every penny. That said, the aluminums aren't a huge step down (if you get good ones), and are drastically cheaper. So I've been made a believer. Happy

The major downside is that everyone needs to have like weapons, else you have to play by yourself!

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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