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Stephen J. Kelley




Location: Ar Ramadi, Iraq
Joined: 19 Jan 2006

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2006 1:43 am    Post subject: Arab/Islamic Weapons         Reply with quote

Can anyone recommend some reference on edged weapons from the Middle East and North Africa? Online sources would be the most helpful, I am deployed in Iraq and it takes forever for print media to get here. (but sugestions for books are appreciated too)
Any information on Talwars would be appreciated also.

I would be interested in communicating with anyone else out there who is interested in weapons from this region.
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: Arab/Islamic Weapons         Reply with quote

Stephen J. Kelley wrote:
Can anyone recommend some reference on edged weapons from the Middle East and North Africa? Online sources would be the most helpful, I am deployed in Iraq and it takes forever for print media to get here. (but sugestions for books are appreciated too)
Any information on Talwars would be appreciated also.

I would be interested in communicating with anyone else out there who is interested in weapons from this region.


Hi Stephen,

Thinking of doing a little collecting are we? Wink

There are a few books out there, but most are overspecialised or too general. Most are out of print as well, so you'll probably need to order them from somewhere that supplies second-hand books like abebooks.com.

A good starting point is G. C. Stone's "Glossary..." it's old, it's out of date and often downright innacurate, but it's the only place where you will find most of these weapons in just one book. It's also still in print, published by Dover Books.

I'm having a quick glance at my shelves now. I would also recommend the following:
"Islamic weapons, Magrib to Moghul" by Anthony C. Tirri
"The Indian Sword" by P. S. Rawson

If you just want a small primer try "Islamic Arms" by Anthony North

If you want to know specifically about medieval Islamic swords try "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" by Unsal Yucel.
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Reading list: 15 books

Posts: 790

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen,

I was in Tikrit for most of 2003, and am now in Germany, so I share your pains with the Military Postal Service (who are NOT on my Christmas card list).

Alina Boyden posted some stuff that was in a book at her university. She had attached quite a few pictures, but it looks like they are gone now. Still might be worth checking out. That can be found in this thread.

If you are planning to start collecting, I would recomend that you check with someone in your unit. We actually had a war memorablia respresentative who could tell you whether you were allowed to take something home or not. When I was there, they were considering swords to be war trophies, so your unit could take one, but individuals were not allowed to send/bring home any swords other than those purchsed at the PX in Kuwait. I wasn't in Kuwait much, so I can't tell you if those swords were worth the effort.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Stephen J. Kelley




Location: Ar Ramadi, Iraq
Joined: 19 Jan 2006

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2006 3:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, that should get me started.

There is a lot out there to buy in this catagory but unfortunately not much reference material to make an informed decision on a purchase. I passed up a nice shamshir on an online auction because I wasn't sure if it was a good investment or not. I had no idea what questions to ask to know what I was bidding on so I stopped at what I was willing to pay for it's aestetic value to me. Kicking myself a bit for it now.

There is much available from this region but you have to be careful what you are buying because the "antiques" are often not really so old. Knowing the construction techniques and materials used will help a lot.

I wouldn't try sending a sword from here, but daggers can be shipped provided they have a scabbard.
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Reading list: 15 books

Posts: 790

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen J. Kelley wrote:
I wouldn't try sending a sword from here, but daggers can be shipped provided they have a scabbard.


That's right; I'd forgotten about the dagger/bayonet rule. The military just doesn't make sense some days!

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should check out oriental arms, even as they are sellers, and the vikingsword forum, which will be more of a help. Tulwars are rather indian, BTW, not NA or ME. There you'll rather find shamshirs and kilijs... Big Grin
I love that area...
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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 112 books

Posts: 1,019

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Arab/Islamic Weapons         Reply with quote

Thinking of doing a little collecting are we? Wink


Laughing Out Loud Oh boy, here we go, another comrade of obsession and compulsion! Wow did I get a good laugh!


In all seriousness, welcome to a wonderful world!

Bob
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George Doby




Location: texas
Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i just rotated back from TQ in dec. when we got to kuwait there were a few 'sword and daggersa' there that were modern made. i had read on line? bout some jambiya from yeman that were made for turist trade that were 2 peices of sheet metal spot welded together. saw some there that the pakistani claimed up and down were antiques. he had one dagger that he claimed was from the royalty of iean becausse it had a crude figure on it of a person with a crown on his head. it was obvious from the workmanship that it wasn't anything made for royalty.
bought several daggers at BIAP andf in the green zone that are 'real' got one of our terps to bring me couple from baghdad-one a yemeni dagger. it is old not the cheap modern made.
if you have any eye and don't let the buying jitters get you you should be able to tell real from modern made.
is there a bazaar at ramadi? you might try befreinding some of y'alls terps and see what they can get you just be sure that they understand that you are looking for antique real daggers and swords. had to pass on one in the green zone as the dealer wanted 1100 for it. sword. lots of silver mounted sheaths there.
good luck watch out for those IEDs and incoming.

don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things
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Laurie W
Industry Professional



Location: SW Arizona
Joined: 20 Jan 2006

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might also want to look through this International Sword Forum board on this very subject. "Edged Weapons from the Middle East, Asia and Africa"
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George Doby




Location: texas
Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2006 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it would take books bout 10-14 days to get to me at TQ if i had it sent priority mail; bulk would take up to a month
don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things
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Stephen J. Kelley




Location: Ar Ramadi, Iraq
Joined: 19 Jan 2006

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just waited over a month for an Arabic Dictionay.....This is Ramadi......

I was actually at the Bazaar at BIAP two years ago. I bought a nice Khanjar. Might see something in Kuwait, who knows...I experienced the "antiques" in Kuwait on my way into theater. Looked old until you peeked inside the scabbard, they forgot to darken the wood inside.....I have heard about the Jambiya blades that are actually two pieces of metal.
My Terps can't help me, nor can my TCN's unless they send it from their home to mine. Ramadi regs are very strict due to an incident last year, only Americans can have any kind of knives unless it is for preparing food, even then it better not be too big.

I am aware Talwars are Indian, as were the Moguls, who incidentally were also Muslim. The Talwar question was an "Also"....In a related catagory if you consider religion a factor (See title of post).

Thanks again for all the info, Vikingsword I had found on my own and it was informative. I will continue following your leads.

As for collecting, I have been looking at and have bought a few here and there for awhile. Most of the time I cannot afford them, but right now I have a little extra cash and an interest in a specific area due to my circumstances, so yes, I am gonna do a little collecting Big Grin
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