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C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Bavarian State Archaeological Collection (large images)         Reply with quote

During a recent visit, I had the opportunity to take a few photos at the Archäologische Staatssammlung, München (the Bavarian State Archaeological Collection in Munich). Unfortunately, the majority of their Roman thru Early Mediaeval artifacts were not currently on display, only a few pieces being shown while that area of the museum is under going renovations. Their bronze collection is fabulous however, and I throughly enjoyed myself. My apologies for the quality of these photos, I am not terribly adept with a camera under optimal conditions and photgraphing objects through a reflective display case, without a flash, was a trying process indeed.
I hope these are of interest!









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C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

and a few more...




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Wolfgang Armbruster





Joined: 03 Apr 2005

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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thx a lot for these pics!
My favourites are the Hallstatt-sword (the one with the oversized "pommel") and the Gladius blade. I'm surprised about the good condition of that Gladius-blade. The spine on that sword is almost invisible.

Interesting that you took a pic of the "Goldhelm". There's still a debate among archeologists about how these pieces were actually used. Most likely they were worn by priests during ceremonies.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 6:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pictures! C.L. Kirk wherever you are you definitely need to add some of those images to your collection...

I thought it was a creative way to show the tops of the pommels using mirrors.

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C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
I thought it was a creative way to show the tops of the pommels using mirrors.


You're very welcome!
The whole museum (well, what was open...) was nicely laid out. There's quite a bit of detail on those pommel (upper guard?) tops which, alas, doesn't come through in the photos at all.
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Bavarian State Archaeological Collection (large images)         Reply with quote

C.L. Miller wrote:
During a recent visit, I had the opportunity to take a few photos at the Archäologische Staatssammlung, München (the Bavarian State Archaeological Collection in Munich)...My apologies for the quality of these photos....
Excellent pictures. Thanks!

Quote:
I hope these are of interest!

Yes, indeed! I had been under the impression that bronze swords tended to be relatively short, e.g., maybe 20 inch blade max? It is interesting to see that these bronze blades seem to be quite a bit longer than my expectation.



And then there is...this...thing. What in the world is it? Perhaps my vision has been distorted Blush by the discussion regarding oversized codpieces in the "A Landskneckt To Study" thread....


"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Carl Goff




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very neat. Thank you! I rather like that axe with a scythe handle.

And also, I'm going to jump on the "what IS that thing?" bandwagon with Steve. Wolfgang's comment seems to have given us the name, but can you tell us a little more about the piece, please?

Oh, East of sands and sunlit gulf, your blood is thin, your gods are few;
You could not break the Northern wolf and now the wolf has turned on you.
The fires that light the coasts of Spain fling shadows on the Eastern strand.
Master, your slave has come again with torch and axe in his right hand!
-Robert E. Howard
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Alexander Hinman




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Egads! I went there not but two years ago, and remember seeing 'that thing'. It's in the 'gold room'. Yet for the life of me I can't remember what it was, though the back of my head says it has some sort of ritual significance.

Perhaps it was the royal dunce cap? *grin*

I do remember, though, they had a great Slavic section which had a few axes and a number of glass rings that I found very interesting.

I also remember a sword that had a pinned handle like a falcata.

If only the camera hadn't run out of power before I got there. Bah!
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Wolfgang Armbruster





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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's some information on "What is that?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hat

Unfortunately the english wikipedia site has very little information on the Goldhut from Ezelsdorf. That's the one on the pic.

However, here's what the scientists found out: The marks on the hat are actually a calendar. It's quite a complex system as you can see here (unfortunately only in German)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/0/06...ktion1.JPG

All three hats found in Germany and the one in France share the same calendar-functions.

It's still debatable on whether these things are actually hats worn by priests during ceremonies. They could have been mounted on a thick pole as well. Well, lots of mysteries there Wink

I wouldn't be surprised if someone would come up with a new interpretation in the not too distant future. Most interpretations change as soon as new evidence is available.

Some scientists see the Goldhats in connection with the Nebra Skydisk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_skydisk
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C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2006 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the links Wolfgang! There wasn't much information provided on the "hat" by the museum itself, but I included the photo along with the weapons simply because it is one of the museum's better known artifacts and one certainly worth seeing.
While I'm neither an archaeologist nor an anthropologist, it would have been my inclination to believe that these pieces would have been mounted on a pole or stump rather than worn. The base and opening of this particular "hat," for example, is very round and does not appear to have been shaped with a human skull in mind. However, the oldest of the known "hats," that found in Schifferstadt, apparently had the remains of what is taken to be a chin-strap attached to it, and most archaeologists have no accepted that these objects were in fact worn, at least occasionally.
As Wolfgang says, it would not be surprising in the least were this interpretation to change as new evidence comes to light. Thanks again!
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Arne Focke
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 4:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I dug out this old thread to share one more picture with you.
On one of the older pictures you can see a smaller seax. These days it is displayed in a special exhibition, so it is easier to get a closer view.
Note the runes on the blade.

Enjoy. Happy



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So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
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Kurt Scholz





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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 5:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I study in Munich and I can visit this museum and others every day for free. If you need other photos or images from a different angle, just send me a PM. With some preparation and a reasonable explanantion I can again visit the archives. The Landesamt für Denkmalpflege is also nearby where I can get drawings of many things found in Bavaria, especially if they are considered important. Please don't ask my why in the 21th century we have so much manpower devoted to detailed drawing, colouring or shading and inking archaeological finds and features, while we still have no guideline or idea on how to archive digital data.
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Arne Focke
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Location: near Munich, Germany
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
Please don't ask my why in the 21th century we have so much manpower devoted to detailed drawing, colouring or shading and inking archaeological finds and features, while we still have no guideline or idea on how to archive digital data.


As an archaeologist I can answer part of that. In drawings you can bring things out more clearly which might be overlooked in a digital picture. For example the runes on this seax could be made more prominent to draw the eye towards them. Very helpful if you are working on the subject.

Off topic:
If you find some spare time you might want to visit the open air museum Bajuwarenhof (www.bajuwarenhof.de). I set up my new forge there since I moved to the area a few month back. Happy

So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
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Kurt Scholz





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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Arne Focke"]
Kurt Scholz wrote:
Please don't ask my why in the 21th century we have so much manpower devoted to detailed drawing, colouring or shading and inking archaeological finds and features, while we still have no guideline or idea on how to archive digital data.


As an archaeologist I can answer part of that. In drawings you can bring things out more clearly which might be overlooked in a digital picture. For example the runes on this seax could be made more prominent to draw the eye towards them. Very helpful if you are working on the subject.
[quote]

As a soon to be archaeologist, I say that we are simply overdoing it. I totally agree that drawings can be a very useful way to explain an object. In theory that's quite a good approach, but there are reasonable limits and the current practice is often beyond reason. Making drawings of features and afterwards painting them in uniform brown on a table far away from the feature is just one example of what goes wrong.
Long talk short, go to a foreign European country, show their archaeologists how documentation is really handled here and look at their reactions.

We are really getting offtopic. If you want further discussion we should do it via PM.
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