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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 2:50 am    Post subject: Nordic "Horned" helm         Reply with quote

What can you guys tell me about this helm?

This is what I can tell you:

Bronze helm. Found in Denmark. Nordic. Circa 1000-800 BC.


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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: dance         Reply with quote

Wild guessing. Religious dance piece. Looks like sockets, hooks etc. for added decoration. Used to be a pretty old horn dance near where I grew up, which was probably scandinavian in oriigin. I suppose a more sensible answer would be 'nothing'.
Geoff
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Joachim Nilsson





Joined: 29 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm with Geoff. That's a ceremonial helmet. Are you sure the dating is correct? It looks like a Bronze Age piece to me.
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Jakob Elbæk E. Pedersen




Location: Brabrand, Denmark
Joined: 21 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 5:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is one of a pair found in the bog Brøns near Veksø on Sealand (the larger og the two large danish islands). They have been dated to about 800 BC.

They are considered to be purely of ceremonial purpose, the metal is very thin and the horns are cast over a clay-core, which is still partly intact inside the horns (or head mounted phallic symbols if you like).

The faces on the skullpiece are normally considered to be representing birds of prey, with curved beaks. The slit on the top of the skullpiece is most likely meant to serve as a mount for a feather decoration. Birds seem to have a very special place in the latter bronze age religion - together with ships, horses, complicated sun-symbols and phallic symbols of many diffrent shapes. There is no doubt that fertility has been an important factor in the religion.

A simular horn has been found in another bog, in Odsherred, in Denmark and small bronze figures with very simular horned helmets has been found at Grevensvænge on Sealand. At Bohuslen in Sweden there are some famous stone carvings, showing men wearing horned helmets, while participating in, what could be interpritated as a religious ceremony - which presumeably includes nakedness (and huge erected phallic symbols) and playing on the famous bronze-age instrument, the lur.

I will post some pictures when I get a chance to scan them.


/Jakob

Quia Possum
(Because I can)
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right, what Jakob said! They are known as the Vikso helmets, and I REALLY want one! Several of the little bronze figurines wearing helmets like these and carrying axes with curved blades are actually in pairs, mounted on a little bar or platform, mirroring the find of 2 helmets together on a plank. My guess is that they represent warrior twin gods of some sort. I would love for these to be battle helmets, but the metal really is too thin and those horns are gonna make them horribly top-heavy. Note that there is a narrow slot running along the crest, probably for a horsehair crest, and little sockets on either side for plumes of some sort. Wouldn't that look wild?

Matthew
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Jim Adelsen
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Location: WI
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To me that helm has never looked like it was even ment to be worn. More like it is just art and not headwear at all.
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love the sword hilt in that photo.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




Location: Göteborg Sweden
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here we go Big Grin


Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
I love the sword hilt in that photo.




Regarding the sword hilt, here's a site that contains some pics of a sword with a similar hilt.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/tgrb/leger_museum_de...mber_2002/
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are more of those bronse figures wearing the helmets and axes:



More can be seen on the photo page from my visit to the National Museum in Copenhagen (including the actual helmets and axes etc.):
http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/
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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pictures, Jeroen. I visited the museum in February and was impressed but I failed to take many pictures. In almost every case you find famous objects that have appeared in countless books -- it really is a great place to go and free on Wednesdays, I believe.


Paul
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Mortimer wrote:
Thanks for the pictures, Jeroen. I visited the museum in February and was impressed but I failed to take many pictures. In almost every case you find famous objects that have appeared in countless books -- it really is a great place to go and free on Wednesdays, I believe.


Paul
It's my most favorite museum on the globe basically. When I went there two years ago, I spend 4 days in a row there, and still only barely got to see everything there. Just too much amazing stuff to take in! For each individual time period on it's own it's outmatches pretty much any other museum, but all together it's totally amazing.
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Douglas S





Joined: 18 Feb 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If the horned helmet was meant for combat, they would have sharpened the tips, now wouldn't they? Eek!

Razz
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Douglas G.





Joined: 30 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jan, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know if you can say for sure this is "Nordic" If the date is circa 1000 BCE I
am inclined to label this "Celtic" regardless of it's find location

Doug Gentner
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Douglas G. wrote:
I don't know if you can say for sure this is "Nordic" If the date is circa 1000 BCE I
am inclined to label this "Celtic" regardless of it's find location

Doug Gentner


Well, considering there were no Celts yet at that time, and they never were any Celts in Denmark at any point in history AFAIK, I definately wouldn't use the term Celtic.
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Douglas G. wrote:
I don't know if you can say for sure this is "Nordic" If the date is circa 1000 BCE I
am inclined to label this "Celtic" regardless of it's find location

Doug Gentner


Hi Doug...

It is a common misunderstanding that Nordic only applies to Viking times. It amazes me that so few people have heard of the Nordic Bronze Age. That culture produced some of the most fascinating and beautiful material culture I have ever seen... and that hundreds of years before anything was happening in central Europe... long before the Celts. As a matter of fact, I believe it has been argued that the vitality of the Nordic Bronze Age provided the momentum for proto-germanic and thus germanic culture.

Here is a thread were I posted some of these fantastic works of sword art and more information.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...ght=nordic

The first two swords I posted on this thread are the swords that formed the inspiration for Achilles' sword in the recent movie "Troy." Strangely enough, these Nordic swords are probably hundreds of years older than even Achilles' time.

take care.

ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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