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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Viking sword : 7375312602



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David Etienne




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have already seen this Viking sword a few weeks ago ? And weren't there some serious discussions about EFTIS ?

Cheers,

David
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Etienne wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have already seen this Viking sword a few weeks ago ? And weren't there some serious discussions about EFTIS ?

Cheers,

David


Thought I recognized those clear pastic stands they use (hadn't clicked on the link yet) If it says "eftis" it's got to be good............... to stay away from... Happy

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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually among high end collectors this fellow enjoys a VERY substantial reputation. He from what I understand from a few collector friends of mine will be moving on some of John Piscopo's collection. He sends along museum certification if the piece being offered is something thats deacessioned and himself runs a museum in England. I've never heard a bad word said about him from the few folks I know who have the cash to collect in that realm that have dealt with him.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder wrote:
Actually among high end collectors this fellow enjoys a VERY substantial reputation. He from what I understand from a few collector friends of mine will be moving on some of John Piscopo's collection. He sends along museum certification if the piece being offered is something thats deacessioned and himself runs a museum in England. I've never heard a bad word said about him from the few folks I know who have the cash to collect in that realm that have dealt with him.


That's not the way I understand it. Or rather he enjoys a substantial reputation alright, but not one I'd want.... Here's a thread...

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001230.html

and another

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...ight=eftis

and another

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...ight=eftis

and some fake coins

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/thumbn...amp;page=4

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18502.0 (this thread is particular seems VERY definitive)

"I don't like the way they claim links with a museum which appears not to exist. " Happy

and another going back to 2002

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=2395

and... you get the idea...

add that to Eftis dodgy ebay auctions and I think you've got a reasonably clear cut case of buyer beware. Perhaps your friends should seek another selling outlet...

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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting Russ. Do you mind if I forward this on to the guys I know? I've never done bussiness with him(can't come anywhere near being able to play in thta price range) and just know what i've heard from folk I know who've done bussiness with him. They may be interested in reading this stuff.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder wrote:
Interesting Russ. Do you mind if I forward this on to the guys I know? I've never done bussiness with him(can't come anywhere near being able to play in thta price range) and just know what i've heard from folk I know who've done bussiness with him. They may be interested in reading this stuff.


Well to be fair I've never done business with him either... but sometimes you don't have to get burned to know the fire is hot. Happy Or at least that's what I tell myself... feel free to pass a warning along, I would probably encourage them to do a google search, (or maybe email some of the links I provided above) information on this guy is reasonably easy to come by. I don't know if they should be referred to this particular thread as I suppose it could potentially cause some grief for Nathan or this forum. With that in mind if mods want me to remove my post or tone it down I will. I just hate seeing people getting ripped off by the unscrupulous.

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Allan Senefelder wrote:
Well to be fair I've never done business with him either... but sometimes you don't have to get burned to know the fire is hot. Happy Or at least that's what I tell myself... feel free to pass a warning along, I would probably encourage them to do a google search, (or maybe email some of the links I provided above) information on this guy is reasonably easy to come by. I don't know if they should be referred to this particular thread as I suppose it could potentially cause some grief for Nathan or this forum. With that in mind if mods want me to remove my post or tone it down I will. I just hate seeing people getting ripped off by the unscrupulous.

Yep. it was off-topic for that "eBay finds" topic, which is only meant for pointing stuff out. I've split it off into its own topic.

Despite the obvious consumer value, it's apparently illegal to do things to tank on-going, open, and active auctions. One day I need to learn the details of this, because frankly, I find this sort of info and any discussion of potential items I'd want to buy quite useful.

So, having said that, let's tread lightly on doing anything actively meaning to tank this guy's sale. I guess the key is to be objective and factual. I don't know, really.

I've added a new task to my list to do some research on what type of discussions and activities will lead to getting this site in trouble. If anybody has links to legal info about active auctions and on-line discussions, please forward them to me.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I was concerned about that. Not about the information I was giving Allan because so far as I know his friends haven't given anything to this Eftis outfit to sell yet. Also I know it's a very bad plan to contact any of the ebay bidders to warn them. Simply desseminating information that some outfit is a bad risk doesn't seem like it would be any more of a problem then telling someone that Bob's House of Togs sells cruddy shoes but legally I have no idea of the ramifications and certainly don't want to cause any problems for this site. Like I said say the word and the message will be deleted. Happy
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree, Russ. I'm going to have to look into it. I know it has something to do with interfering with free trade and one's ability to conduct business. But where does the line get drawn for consumer "watch dog" organizations/web sites and even the simple habit of giving advice on a potential sale? All these things *I* find to be valuable and I'd guess most of us here would, too. The whole thing seems odd to me. I really should know about it, given that I have this site, but I haven't looked yet. I was told by somebody at one time that a person could get his eBay ID revoked simply by posting bad things bout an ongoing auction seller. This is complete hearsay, though, as I've not looked into the terms of service for eBay to verify. But like I said, it's on my long list of things to do.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I was told by somebody at one time that a person could get his eBay ID revoked simply by posting bad things bout an ongoing auction seller.


Surprised Yikes!!!

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well if one has 100% reliable information that something is a fraud one should at least be able to say in big letters
" BUIYER BEWARE " if one is only inclined to believe that something smells fishy maybe a more prudent " get a second opinion ".

At least this is what one would think is reasonable: But knowing the legalities of the situation would be good to know before. Eek!

A few weasel words like: It looks, it seems, could be worthless junk .............. ???

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Blaz Berlec




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PostPosted: Tue 20 Dec, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a quite similar pommel from Bled in Slovenia, found by archeologists during excavation of a 10. th century grave. My first thought would be "this is fake, look at the strange grooves at the tang, they look so uncoroded and machine-made!"...



And here's a replica sword made by Slovene Noational museum, together with some finds from 6th - 10th century (spurs, seaxes, arrow points, axes...



Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
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Lloyd Clark




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PostPosted: Tue 20 Dec, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More info on the seller:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2381027.stm


And from his nonexistent website (gotta love Goggle Cache):

www.antiquitiescollector.com/museum.htm

The Paraskevaides Museum

The Paraskevaides Collection has been in existence for three generations now. It started when my grandfather acquired a few antiquities in the 1800's, as a medical student in Greece. Since then, I, and my father before me have continued to collect ancient art. Predominantly, but not exclusively, we have been collecting around our own culture (Romano - Greek). I am proud to say that my son, Costas, has also joined the family passion and is rapidly becoming an antiquities expert in his own right.


My enthusiasm for ancient art flared as a teenager, when I discovered a stoneage settlement in Cyprus, where I was born. Throughout the years I have acquired a great deal of knowledge and have dealt with many antiquities, finders and dealers. I have published in journals and was editor-in-chief of an antiquities related magazine.


The Paraskevaides Collection has only recently decided to sell artefacts and this decision is based on our desire to evolve the range of our ancient art. We take great pride therefore in offering quality antiquities at reasonable prices.


Furthermore, and more importantly, all our artefacts whether for sale or not, have been authenticated by antiquity experts. We make it our policy to have our collection authenticated periodically. Sadly, the antiquities market is plagued with fakes. There is no substitute to practical experience and knowledge in ancient art when it comes to avoiding this minefield. For this reason we have formed a panel of six experienced and trustworthy specialists who review ALL material that we list on this site. Their job is, quite simply, to agree that the material that we enter is ancient and of the period stated. This is particularly important for the newcomer or the inexperienced ancient art collector who faces the real danger of spending a considerable amount of income on fakes. We have extended a limited number of invitations to other sellers who have a code of conduct comparable to ours. Whilst we do review our guests' entries all responsibility for such items rests with the guest seller.


We would like everybody, irrespective of whether they choose to spend $20 or $200,000, to get as much enjoyment out of collecting ancient art as we have through the years - and still do! Antiquities can instil a sense of belonging and forge a link between an individual and his heritage. The challenge of creating a personal collection reflecting individual taste and personality can be fascinating. Since the number of artefacts for sale in the art market is limited, acquiring ancient art offers exciting investment opportunities.


Thank you for taking the time to read this and a warm welcome to AntiquitiesCollector online auctions.


Good Luck!


Sincerely,

Eftis Paraskevaides.
BSc MBChB FRCS FRCSEd MRCOG MRCPI

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
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2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 7:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another interesting addendum to this thread check this:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...post694897

This gentlemen claims to be an Eftis customer...

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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec, 2005 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Another interesting addendum to this thread check this...
That post sure paints ebay with a black brush.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Please read what Adrian Ko has to say about the issue of auction interference: Sword Forum Link. It's full of good information. One day I'll find the time to type up an official policy for us here, but to be honest, it's not very high on my list of things to do.
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Jeff Pringle
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Dec, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right now there is another auction on Ebay, of a sword that looks like it came from the Eftis hoard, but is being resold by someone else - So they are filtering out into the market and will be cropping up in the future.
Get educated, bid carefully, and have a merry holiday!
Jeff
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm just curious here.... And I know I'm no t100% attentive right now (due to consuming various beverages) -but doesn't the cross seem lopsided in the first pic(compared to the second one)? You know what I mean. To me it seems like the lower "arm" of the cross is longer in the first pic than in the second one. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Dec, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim Nilsson wrote:
I'm just curious here.... And I know I'm no t100% attentive right now (due to consuming various beverages) -but doesn't the cross seem lopsided in the first pic(compared to the second one)? You know what I mean. To me it seems like the lower "arm" of the cross is longer in the first pic than in the second one. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm thinking it's an illusion caused by shadows in the first pic...
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