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John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri 16 Dec, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Falcata/kopis furniture?         Reply with quote

What would be the best, regarding authenticity and aesthetics, for falcata/kopis fittings and grip?

Bronze fittings with organic grip?
Antiqued brass fittings with organic grip?
Steel/wrought iron fittings with organic grip?
All fittings and grip organic?

Regarding the organic grip:
Horn?
Bone?
Various colors and types of wood?

Also, I know it would be "inauthentic", but would a hammer-textured blade look good on a falcata/kopis?

Thanks, y'all.

~John

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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B. Stark
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Location: ORYGUN
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Dec, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Falcata/kopis furniture?         Reply with quote

John Cooksey wrote:
What would be the best, regarding authenticity and aesthetics, for falcata/kopis fittings and grip?

Bronze fittings with organic grip?
Antiqued brass fittings with organic grip?
Steel/wrought iron fittings with organic grip?
All fittings and grip organic?

Regarding the organic grip:
Horn?
Bone?
Various colors and types of wood?

Also, I know it would be "inauthentic", but would a hammer-textured blade look good on a falcata/kopis?


the bronze is fine, skip the brass, steel is ok too. Organic handle scales, whether they be bone, horn, or wood is fine. Olive wood, holly or something indigenous too the parts of the world where this sword was used. Walnut wood work as well I suppose. Ash maybe, or elm.

As to multy-coloured wood. I have misgivings that the effect would come off too "modern". As to the hammered texture, that would really be matter of opinion. I would think that it would encourage rust though. A clean polished blade has problems enough with that. At a minimum I think you should incorporate some kind of bolster/guard of bronze or iron. There's my suggestions.

"Wyrd bi∂ ful aręd"

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?

Patrick Henry
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a bump...

Also can anyone direct me to information involving how these hilts where put together? I have seen a lot of pictures of originals, but it is very hard to make out anything related to construction.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No bronze or brass was used on the falcata (Greek kopis did have bronze hilts, but they are quite different overall). The bolsters are iron, attached usually with two rivets. Below you can see an example where the rivets are drawn (series B, no. 2). The rivets are usually hammered/ground flush, so you don't see the rivets.



Of the organic material, I don't have much information. This example has a white material, which could be bone or ivory (most likely):



I'd expect wood and horn would have been used as well.

Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On some of the examples I see what appears to be metal fittings at the terminus of the handle (the end part that wraps up around the users pinkie and ring finger). Does anyone know how these had been attached? I have seen examples where the hilts terminus has a little but plate with a single attachment point in the middle. How where these attached? Was the little rivet coming through the center of these end plates part of the tang? With examples of Greek kopis, was the entire hilt made of bronze, or just accents?
I have looked over the falcata / kopis thread, but have yet to be able to determine the difference between a typical Greek kopis and an Iberian falcata. What where the main difference?
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Zechman wrote:
I have looked over the falcata / kopis thread, but have yet to be able to determine the difference between a typical Greek kopis and an Iberian falcata. What where the main difference?


Here is a summary by Fernando Quesada, the main expert on the subject:



 Attachment: 34.29 KB
Falcata_machaira_kopis_differences.jpg


Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
Joined: 11 Mar 2005

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

N.b. here are some kopis examples, of which pictures are pretty rare. Both are from the National Museum in Athens:


 Attachment: 3.02 KB
kopis_National_Archeological_Museum_Athens_BL560_HL125_T5_tapering_HT15-20.jpg


 Attachment: 94.35 KB
3886868379_eba6f84edd_o2.jpg


 Attachment: 156.69 KB
[ Download ]

Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OK now I am getting a better handle on things. Seems to me that the average kopis may have been longer and more slender. I have seen that Ibis shaped handle in at least one reproduction. Seems as though the back of the blade was straighter then a typical falcata, without that pronounced bend forward (toward cutting edge) seen in a lot of other examples. I have been working on a scale design today, and will be trying to post some pictures for critique.
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