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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum but have always collected armoury items. Now I have a problem I would love to fix myself but I'm scared I might damage the item further.
I received a beautiful stainless steel sword from England, but the tip was bent, it looked like deliberate damage somewhere in the post office. I would like to try and straighten it out but not sure how. The tip is quite narrow and I wouldn't want to break it off accidentaly. Can you please lend me some advice? Thanks![/b]



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Jane Valen
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tried to hammer one straight a long time ago and just broke it clean off. Hopefully we can get some good advise here though.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I sure hope you make an official complaint to the post office about it: It may be a waste of time, but the reason it may be a waste of time is that everybody assumes it will be, and don't complain. At the very least making a complaint makes you feel less like a " victim "

I did bend the point of a SOG bowie fighting knife once by dropping it on the floor: maybe only 10 to 15 degrees though !1

Yours looks worse Cry

I managed to straiten the point on my knife by bracing it at an angle on a hard surface and using body weight to apply pressure, this did straiten the point, but I can't help thinking that metal fatigue would mean that it is weaker than before it bent.

Another solution is to grind away the bent part and re-profiling a new point: getting rid of the compromised metal: This takes skill to do it right. Power tools should not be used unless one is very sure of ones' skill ! Doing it with a diamond hone means being very very patient.

Returning it to the maker is also an option in some cases, but international shipping / repeated customs clearance on the same piece, with maybe getting dinged for duties both way multiple times is a serious pain in the butt.

The maker / shipper / seller might be able to make an insurance claim because of shipping damage.

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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 2:22 pm    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Thanks for advice guys, but I need more details on how to actualy do it without re-filing it. As much as I know about metal-working I need to heat it up and then try to straighten it, otherwise I'll break it off, but since it's just my theory I wanted to get some expert advice before I actualy do it. Make sense? Happy
Returning the sword to England was out of question, I've spent double the price of the sword on postage. And the seller wants it back if I want to get refund(minus shipping). This math did not work for me! Sad

Jane Valen
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dzejna;

If it bent this much without breaking I don't think it would break off straitened " ONCE " , could be wrong there, so please don't blame me !

Heating it would just remove all hardening of the blade for at least an inch or two of blade and if you did get it looking strait again the point would be dead soft and extremely easy to bend again.

Unless one could take the sword apart and have the whole thing re-heat treated professionally ................ Not very likely.

Also this might be easier or practical for a simple carbon steel: Stainless steels usually need very specialized heat treating methods.

Keep in mind that I am not an expert here and I am just giving you pause for thought before you attempt anything radical.

if you wait a while some industry professionals may add their much more informed opinion. It usually takes a few days to get more than a couple of replies on any topic, so if you wait a bit, you should get more advice: Good or bad ??? but definitely more !

The exact type of steel can be very important in making a decision about what can be done and what can one practically do. Without some real expertise in working steel and the tools to do it ones' options are very limited

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William Goodwin




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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My Armour Class Mortuary had a slight bend in the tip when I received it. Fixed by taking a wooden mallet, a 2 x 4 block and anvil with a rag over the anvil to absord some the shock and lightly tapping in back in place. Use the block against the blade cause it had a much flatter surface than the mallet.

Cheers,

Bill

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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ya wooden mallet or leather rawhide shouldnt hurt it as much a metal hammer. one would think. but i'm no expert
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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Yes, that was my second guess.....I had a rubber mallet in mind but it's close enough. Thanks for the advice! I might wait just a tad more to see will anyone else have other suggestions, just to be safe. I wouldn't want to ruin this nice sword just because I ran out of patience! And especialy since I paid so much for it! Happy
I just can't even imagine what force was needed to bend it this much! Sad(((((
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fire, a wooden block or stump, and a lead mallet.

Heating the tip is going to soften up the metal and ruin the temper. Unfortunately, it is that or risk breaking the point off altogether (unless you want to file it, which is an option). There are some chemical hardening solutions that you might be able to use to reharden just the area that you heat, but I don't know anything about them and can't even think of any of the names at the moment. Try to heat as little of the tip as possible, though; any portion that changes color (i.e. turns red, orange, or white) has become softer than it was.

The wood block or stump is your replacement for an anvil. Even if you use a soft mallet, laying your sword across a hard anvil means that the material is going to be worked (and consequently deformed) by the anvil face. You want something that isn't going to ruin the cross section. You could probably use a lead block for this, but I am guessing that a stump will be easier to come by.

A lead mallet is superior to a rubber or wooden mallet for this kind of thing as it has enough weight to make the metal move, but is still softer than the steel you are working. Therefore, you will end up marring the face of the lead mallet, but not deforming your sword.

Also, when you straighten out the tip, turn the blade over (so that what is the top in your picture is down, and vice versa). If you don't you can still get the tip straight, but it will be harder, and might end up a bit wavy. This is because the sword will rock back and forth if you try to work it oriented as in the picture. Cup your hand and place the back of it on a table. Now push down on you fingertips. You'll notice that your wrist rises just a bit. Now, place you hand with you fingertips and the heal of your hand on the table. Push down on the back of you hand, and you will notice that the whole thing flattens out a little better. The same thing happens with metal.

I use this method when I twist a piece of metal, but want to straighten it out without ruining the twist. Comes in handy for fire strikers, S-hooks, scroll work, and general blacksmithing demonstration stuff. Of course, I don't have to worry about temper at that point. Hope that provides you with the info you need.

-Grey

P.S. I use a forge to get things hot, but a hand held propane torch should be adequate for your project.

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Okay, thanks Grayson, I'll try it! I'll see what material I can come around with, ergo anvil and lead mallet. Keep your fingers crossed! Happy
Jane Valen
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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Posts: 790

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glad to help. I sent an e-mail to my father about the hardening substance. I know he uses it from time to time, and has more knowledge on that than I do. I'll let you know what he says, but I think that a small enough area of the tip is affected that you could probably just leave it soft. I personally wouldn't be using a stainless sword anyway. As long as you polish the tip up nicely it should be fine for hanging on a wall looking pretty.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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David Martin




Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Joined: 11 Apr 2005

Posts: 162

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I've never tried this, so please consult with someone who knows more about this steel before doing anything.

If this was my sword, after I registered my complaint and exhausted possiblities for a return or refund, I would attempt this:

I'd put the tip in a well-padded (wood & leather, etc.) vise - the best bet might be to "fill" the concave part of the bend with lead or some other soft material that will support the blade as the vise is very slowly tightened. This won't completely straighten the tip, but it will likely remove the majority of the bend. My thought is that this would leave me in a better position to straighten out the blade with a soft lead mallet.

Please don't take my word as gospel on this. Looking at that bend and knowing that the sword is made of stainless, I'd say that you're in very dangerous territory regardless of what you try.

Good luck to you!

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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2005 3:32 am    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Okay it worked! Happy I did have to substitute some things but the tip itself looks way better! It still has a very slight blunting of the tip and I was thinking of maybe using the pliers to give it another nudge but I'm happy with the result right now and I'm not willing to risk it further. I used my rubber mallet and a piece of cloth over the tip. Like you've said, I turned the bent tip down so there was no waving of the blade. Thanks so much again! I went to Home Depo afterwards to search for some hooks for the wall mount since the original ones I was sent did not fit, go figure. Luckily I did find something very similar and larger in size so the mounting went perfect and the sword is happily displayed on the wall!
Thank you all very much for your help and support! HappyHappyHappy

Jane Valen
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2005 5:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did you end up heating it? What did you place the tip on? I'm glad it worked, but I am sure that this kind of thing will turn up again somewhere (hopefully NOT with someone's sword, but you never know), so I want to get all the details in the name of offering good, suportable advice (and/or alternatives) in the future.

I would love to see a picture of the final result, if you have one. And, as always, glad we could help!

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

No problem Grey, you are absolutely right, you never know who else might need some help later! Happy
I actualy did not reheat it, I was scared I'd mess it up further so I just basicaly acted like a cave woman and banged on it until it straightened out. Happy
I used a double layer of plain kitchen cloth, believe it or not. I placed the tip on my cemented patio (another piece of kitchen cloth underneath). That was it...no fuss or special preparations, I guess I had lots of beginners luck too. And now you can see the pictures of an actual sword and just the fixed tip. The slightest curving is still felt but not really that visible and is a huge improvement over the initial one. Tell me what you think! Happy[img]



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Jane Valen
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dzejna;

Well, you seem to have removed about 90% of the damage: At the risk of pushing your luck, some VERY VERY light taping at the very end of the tip, followed by very careful filing could remove the rest.

It's hard to tell from the Pict if you have some damage to the finish though !?

If there are no deep scratches using the finest abrasive you can find you could re-polish the tip: I'm not sure how much experience you have doing polishing or sharpening? ( Or simulated sharpening if your sword edges are closer to butter knife sharp. )

I've used one of those abrasive sticks / strips used for shaping fingernails that looks like a dark popsicle stick and is of bendable soft metal to get into corners or to polish small areas.

Polish in only one direction to avoid having scratches being highlighted: usually in the lengthwise direction of the blade.

If your sword has a mirror polish rather than a soft satin finish getting the new finish to match the old finish is more difficult and you do want to avoid having to repolish the WHOLE thing.

Using a hardened steel smooth burnisher can get you close to a mirror polish.

Costwise when buying swords I would recommend that you check out U.S. vendors first as your cost, including the very steep shipping factored in, would have made buying a higher end sword at the same price ! And returning it because of damage would have been easy: Most of the top vendors or makers will take returns and make a claim to their shipping insurance if possible.

It is quite possible that you could have found the same sword in the U.S. at the same or even lower price. ( Sorry if this is a depressing thought ! )

Check the Links at the top of the home page here and you will find many resources. ( Just in case you haven't noticed this yet. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Tue 27 Sep, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the feed back.

Just in case anyone needs the info in the future. The hardening stuff that I was refering to is known as Kasenit. It can be purchased through Brownell's (I believe their website is www.brownells.com (go figure)), and probably a lot of other places, too. Just FYI.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue 27 Sep, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Thanks Grey, that will come in handy...there was no damage or scratching of the worked surface since the cloth protected it very well and I guess the rubber mallet was not hard enought to cause damage. I might try and straighten the last visible bending later but as of now, this will have to do especialy since the damage is barely visible. Soft satin finish was preserved.
Yes, I realized I could have gotten this kind of sword for cheaper but I was in a hurry and needed it for a special event. Unfortunately when I realized what the shipping would be I already agreed to purchase and then just couldn't go back on my word. Happy
Thanks for all the tips and help, it was invaluable!

Jane Valen
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 27 Sep, 2005 7:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dzejna;

Well, I have great respect for someone who believes in respecting a commitment and be true to their word. Cool

Still it can be " honourable " to cancel an order if no costs have been incurred by the vendor and the product is just standard inventory. It's very different if it is a custom order and any work has started.

Depending on your relationship with the vendor and the scale of the vendor: A small vendor might have the flexibility to easily cancel a project or a large vendor won't be adversely impacted by the loss of one sale. If you are a repeat client and you have to cancel an order or change an order or defer a purchase: The better vendors will be O.K. with it.

Being up front with your concerns about excessive shipping costs a " NICE " vendor might let you cancel your order even if you told them you would go through with the purchase if they won't !

Oh, also, some companies have really good return policy if you find that the product wasn't what you expected. Oh! Some web sites even have a cancel order button if you change your mind soon enough ! In your case, the problem was the shipping costs and you might legitimately be on the hook for those ( Honourably on the hook at least. ) as the vendor should have to take a loss on this kind of thing.

Now cancelling before any shipping / handling costs were incured might have been a practical option, maybe at a small restocking fee if you really felt bad about it or if that was their policy.

In any case, there is room for negotiation at times.

Oh, glad that there are no problems with the finish of the sword and I hope I don't sound too preachy here as my intent is just to be helpful.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Dzejna Valentic




Location: fort worth, texas
Joined: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue 27 Sep, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: How to straighten a bent tip?         Reply with quote

Of course not Grey, I appreciate your help very much! One day I will learn to be more direct when it comes to arranging certain things but in this case I felt responsible because I rushed in without checking the details first......so it was my fault. Live and learn! Happy It will not happen again.
One more time, thanks a bunch for all the valuable advice and help in this matter. Now I'm off to check some of the Collections on this site........Happy)) Have a great day!

Jane Valen
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