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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Weapons Cutting Experiment - Was a success!         Reply with quote

In a couple weeks, my group (http://www.gsmbristol.org) is planning on doing an experiment to show what happens to the body when the weapons we have in camp are used on it. Last year we put together a demonstraion on how a baber surgeon would handle wounds in the field, but we want to take it a step further and show the brutal reality of historical weapons. Right now on the list of things we are going to be using is:

A&A Milanese Rapier
A&A Hungarian Axe
A&A 12th Century Spear
A&A Spiked Mace
MRL Halberd
MRL Shrewsbury Sword
Lutel German Cavalry Sword 12006
Lutel Rapier 14006
Lutel Zweihander 16003
Grain Flail (home made)
16 foot Oak Pike with cheeked head
Walloon Style Cavalry Sword dated to approx 1640 (Original)

depending on logistics:

75# draw English Style Bow with Broadhead Arrows
.62 Calibre Tudor style caliver

I'd like to get some more singlehand and hand and a half blades in the mix but time and budget are factors right now.

Our barber surgeon will hopefully be then showing patrons (at the Bristol Renaissance Faire) what kind of damage was done and how he would have to fix it if he could.

My big question to everyone here is what kinds of things should we be using for the test subjects? In the past we've used cantalopes, turkey legs, legs of lamb, and hams. Are these still the best options for this experiment or are there other things (keep in mind they have to be somewhat allowable for a 16th century Englsih representation) available that would work better?

I will post pictures of the pieces we are using after this weekend as well as pictures of the event itself (hopefully with some video clips) after its all said and done.

Thanks!

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org


Last edited by Chris Last on Mon 15 Aug, 2005 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,839

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would think the biggest consideration would be cost. If you have enough participants willing to contribute, a whole dressed pig might be the way to go.

I have recycled more than one pair of stuffed,heavy leather wellingtons to cutting and poking. leather hides from Tandy, or similar but it seems a waste of material. Old dungarees stuffed tightly with straw.

If you use big cuts of meat, keep the weapons clean and a fire handy.

Cheers

GC
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wonder how stuffed canvas bags would work? We seem to have an over abundance of random canvas chunks in camp.
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Chris,

I would second the pig idea, if not, you can make up some "do it yourself" ballistic gel.

Now that Silverleaf is over, Lisa and I are going to be visiting BRF, let me know what weekend you will be doing this and I will bring the helm and breastplate that Allan at Mercenary Tailor has been kind enough to donate to us for destructive testing - might as well use some of that against armour!

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2005 5:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That sounds fantastic Lloyd! I'll try to nail down a date this weekend and let you know.
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lloyd-

Its going to be this Sunday at 6:00 pm down at the new site. I'll send you a PM with more details, otherwise expect some photos next week folks!

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wish us luck! We've got a whole lot of weapons, and baber surgery tools to use. Our surgeon is going to try and actually cauterize some ham and attempt some shot removal. We'll be video taping, so we'll see how much I can host up for interested parties.
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Sat 13 Aug, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Last wrote:
Our surgeon is going to try and actually cauterize some ham


Ah, so it's a barbeque! Big Grin For some reason, I'm reminded of the words of Jeff Foxworthy in his bit about having th Olypmics in Atlanta: "We won't have a fire that big without a pig on top of it!"

I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It went very well for the most part. I am going to work on getting some video clips hosted up on our website, so I'll post more about that when I can.

Highlights included an old Museum Reps Italian bill cutting a watermelon in half with a quick pull (the entire crowd suddered at that), cutting a 6 by 3 gash in a leg of lamb with an antique Walloon sword, and our barber surgeon cauterizing said wound with his cauteries. THe sizzle could be heard across camp.

Low points, me having issues with actually hitting a melon with my 16 foot pike as opposed to just pushing it off the stand. Also breaking my A&A spiked mace while taking a practice swing on a honeydew on Saturday. I hit the melon, not even the stand, and the head flew right off. Sad I took it to the local A&A booth right after, and they are going to try to get me more information about what to do next.

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Last wrote:
I hit the melon, not even the stand, and the head flew right off. Sad

Eek!
Holy crap! I am always a little afraid of UDFO's: Unexpected Deadly Flying Objects.
I hope all is, and will be, well concerning that!

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

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Posts: 264

PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The head of the mace tumbled to the stage and rolled off to the ground, not hitting anyone thankfully. From my novice inspection of it, it looked as though the head was welded to a rod and then had a steel sleeve threaded around it. At the weld point between the mace head and the inner rod, the weld broke. Hopefully the fellows at A & A can do something about it, as it is one of my favorite pieces.
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
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J. Padgett




Location: In a comfy chair
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Aug, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Last wrote:
Highlights included an old Museum Reps Italian bill cutting a watermelon in half with a quick pull (the entire crowd suddered at that), cutting a 6 by 3 gash in a leg of lamb with an antique Walloon sword, and our barber surgeon cauterizing said wound with his cauteries. THe sizzle could be heard across camp..


Wow. I would liked to have seen (and heard) that. Sorry to hear about the mace, but at least it didn't hit anyone. I'm sure a few maces have done that in historic battles. Then you don't worry so much about it hitting someone as you might about finding another weapon in short order. I hope you get it fixed/replaced.

"The truth shall make ye fret."
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 25 Aug, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And find out why this ones' head fell off: I would assume that A & A has tested some of these before and breaking off like that is not what one should expect. I'm thinking of getting that spike head mace and finding out what went wrong would be nice before buying it.

More information about those weapons tests would be interesting.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Aug, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have BIG plans for Chris and his crew for our October fayre.

Last year, I did a weapons demo show where I cut tatami with the Albion Tritonia, attempted and failed to put a sharpened lance through one of Allan's MT breastplates (we also shot it with a horsebow - the arrows bounced off and one exploded, but the breastplate stood tough), among other things.

I plan on drastically expanding this for this year (destroying more of Allan's beautiful armour in the process) and will film it as well.

So, get those plane tickets now for Wisconsin Big Grin October 1 and 2!!!

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Aug, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sweet Lloyd! Let me know what else you want us to bring besides early period stuff.

Video clips of some of the test cuttings should be up early next week! Including the cauterizing!

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Chris Last




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Some Updates         Reply with quote

Ok, Nothing from A&A yet on my mace. It was sent back, but according to the shopkeep, they didn't receive quite a few things they were expecting this past weekend. Hopefully I can get it this upcoming weekend seeing as its the last weekend of Bristol.

Now for some other fun stuff. I put up some video clips of the event. They are in a Windows Media Video format and about 3 MB per file. Here you go:

A&A Spear vs Watermelon

MRL Srewsbury Sword vs Leg of Lamb and the Barber Surgeon's reaction

MRL Italian Bill vs Watermelon

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org


Last edited by Chris Last on Tue 30 Aug, 2005 1:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mike Pospichal





Joined: 20 May 2005

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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing those, quite interesting, but right now the "A&A Spear vs Watermelon" is coming up as a "404 Not Found".
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whoops, typed in the wrong URL. Should be fixed now!
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any possibility in posting these in QUICKTIME as my MAC won't open those windows files ? ( Or a few stills shots ? )

( They might if I spent money purchasing Microsoft Office for MAC, but since I declined to buy Microsoft stuff I would rarely use when the trial version of Microsoft Office expired a few months after I bought my MAC. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll see what I can do. I'm kind of new to this digital video stuff. Happy
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
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