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William Hurst




Location: California
Joined: 16 May 2005

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 12:14 am    Post subject: Windlass Viking Helmet         Reply with quote

Has anyone heard anything about Windlass's Viking Helmet? It looks really good aesthetically, but before I pick one up I was wondering how good the quality of it is. Or if anyone has opinions on the quality of Windlass's other helmets.
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Russ Thomas
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Location: Telemark, Norway
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Reading list: 43 books

Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 3:09 am    Post subject: viking helmet         Reply with quote

William,

I have only ever handled one helmet made by Windlass Steelcrafts personally, a burgonet, and that was quite nice , especially for the price ! That said it was made from very thin steel as are most of their products as far as I can gather. (18 swg. =1. 2 mm approx.). 18swg is not thick enough for anything other than decoration.
The other thing , if it is the ' Viking helmet ' shown on this page... http://www.windlass.com/helmets.htm , then it is not really very viking , given the current level of knowledge on viking helmets ! True it is a 'spectacle helm' as many modern scholars call it, but the ear guards and neck guard are more reminiscent of the Vendal period than the viking period. Though I personally think that possibly the Gjermundby helmet ( the only definate true viking helmet found to date ), may have had earguards originally. The spangen construction used on the windlass product, also differs markedly form the original.


Regards as ever,

Russ

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !


http://www.living-history.no
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 4:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

According to Ospreys "scandinavian armies", and quite a lot of illustrations, the cheek and neck guards remain a Norwegian specialty at least until the 12th century...
Some of the Lewis chessmen have them:



Sigurd Fåvnesbane, woodcarving, 13th cent. Note the neck-guard.


[enter sarcasm mode]Now, as every renactor knows, all Viking clothing, equipment and weapons (Like Baggy pants, Lammel armours, big leather bracers...) where spontanously burned, destroyed, or thrown in a very deep fjord following the death of St. Olav in 1030, so post-1030 arms and armour (which we know pretty much what looks like.) need not reflect the previous practices at all... [End sarcasm mode]

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Russ Thomas
Industry Professional



Location: Telemark, Norway
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Reading list: 43 books

Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 5:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hei Elling,

True , the Uig chess pieces,and several other sources, do show a form of neck guard and / or ear guards, but these are all on conical helmets ( so far as I am aware ? ), and not on the 'spectacle' style like the Gjermundby. The form of neck guard also appears to be very similar to the the nasal, not broad like that shown on the Windlass example. This feature is also possibly shown on the Bayeaux tapestry . The neck guard shown on the Windlass helmet is nearer in style to the late roman 'ridge' helmets, or helmets like for example the Sutton Hoo helmet.
I have to admit that have made helmets like the Windlass one in the past, complete with the earguards and neck protection, ' Cos I too think that they look really cool aesthetically ! But don't tell anybody ......... Laughing Out Loud

Regards as ever,

Russ

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !


http://www.living-history.no
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ is correct in his evaluation of the cheek and neck guards on that helmet. At best it's pure speculation. The Gjermundbu helmet, of which this is a very loose interpretation, is the only identifiable 'viking' helmet found thus far. The Windlass helmet does look cool though in its basic concept though. It has a bit of a pseudo migration era look to it.

If you are willing to spend more there are far better choices available for a helmet like this.
www.manningimperial.com
www.medievalrepro.com

Windlass helmets exhibit a wide range in their quality. Not long ago I photographed one of their sallets that I was very surprised by. The shape and proportion of the helmet was excellent. Quite frankly I couldn't believe it was a Windlass/MRL product. Unfortunately that particular one is no longer offered. Some time ago I purchased their 'norman' helm, which is based on the well-known Wenceslas helm. This one came out of the box, and went right back into the box for return. The shape and proportions of that particular helmet are way off. MRL has a fairly good return policy that you can take advantage of if neccesary.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Thomas wrote:
Hei Elling,

True , the Uig chess pieces,and several other sources, do show a form of neck guard and / or ear guards, but these are all on conical helmets ( so far as I am aware ? ), and not on the 'spectacle' style like the Gjermundby. The form of neck guard also appears to be very similar to the the nasal, not broad like that shown on the Windlass example. This feature is also possibly shown on the Bayeaux tapestry . The neck guard shown on the Windlass helmet is nearer in style to the late roman 'ridge' helmets, or helmets like for example the Sutton Hoo helmet.
I have to admit that have made helmets like the Windlass one in the past, complete with the earguards and neck protection, ' Cos I too think that they look really cool aesthetically ! But don't tell anybody ......... Laughing Out Loud

Regards as ever,

Russ



I agree that the Windlass neck guard does not look right, but the Lewis chessmen have neck guards that are as broad as the cheek pieces.

To theorize, a neck guard, like the one on the Sigurd woodcarving would need to be broad enough to stop the a flat sword blow from the front BEFORE it cuts you neck arteries... If, of course, the swing is made at close enough range to have the sword point end up that far back....

Further, the norwegian preference for neck/cheek guards could be a result of relatively ample supply of iron and low-level smiths (Production of bog iron was quite common in norway...), but not a lot of mail-makers. If you have access to iron, hammering out a couple of plates, and attaching them to a helmet would not be very hard, and decidedly cheaper than buying a mail coif....

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i have this helmet. and for the cash its not bad, but as for the historical its total crap. the spangen style construction is total wrong for the helm in which it is supposed to be representing. there should be a total mail drape instead of cheek guards and a neck guard (don't know why thats there anyways) it comes with a so so liner that should be linen padded instead of the soft leather it comes with. its 18 gauge, and at that i'm sure with any wooden or steel combat would dent it.

only reason i still have mine is cause it was a Christmas gift from my wife before i knew better. I would say save your cash, there are a great many other historical helmets out there for the same price
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William Hurst




Location: California
Joined: 16 May 2005

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful information. I think I am going to buy a helmet from Valentine Armouries when I have the spare money.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William Hurst wrote:
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful information. I think I am going to buy a helmet from Valentine Armouries when I have the spare money.


which helmet?
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William Hurst




Location: California
Joined: 16 May 2005

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will be probably going with the Simple Nasal Helm in 16 gauge. It just has a very appealing and simple look to it.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jul, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hmmm, if it were me, i'd save my cash on that one too Wink
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Andres M. Chesini Remic




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: 17 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed 24 Dec, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: viking helmet         Reply with quote

Russ Thomas wrote:

The other thing , if it is the ' Viking helmet ' shown on this page... http://www.windlass.com/helmets.htm , then it is not really very viking , given the current level of knowledge on viking helmets ! True it is a 'spectacle helm' as many modern scholars call it, but the ear guards and neck guard are more reminiscent of the Vendal period than the viking period. Though I personally think that possibly the Gjermundby helmet ( the only definate true viking helmet found to date ), may have had earguards originally. The spangen construction used on the windlass product, also differs markedly form the original.


Russ Thomas wrote:

I have to admit that have made helmets like the Windlass one in the past, complete with the earguards and neck protection, ' Cos I too think that they look really cool aesthetically ! But don't tell anybody ......... Laughing Out Loud


I made both mistakes in the past...
Believing that WSC helmet WAS viking, and crafting one (in 14 gauge steel) because it looked nice to me u^^

"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
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Nick B.




Location: Upstate N.Y.
Joined: 11 Apr 2007

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Viking Helm         Reply with quote

I just came across another company that makes a very good 14ga copy of the Gjermundbu helm, WWW.ARMOURandCASTINGS.com. and they are in the U.S.. It's next on my list.
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
and they are in the U.S..


Armour and Castings are in Kiev in the Ukraine.
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Nick B.




Location: Upstate N.Y.
Joined: 11 Apr 2007

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Viking Helm         Reply with quote

Oops, made a mistake they are not in the U.S., they are in the Ukraine but the helm is only $250.
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Andres M. Chesini Remic




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: 17 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice version...
Didn't like the holes in the mask, but nice one tough...

The one of Grzegorz Kulig is still the best to me: http://www.thorkil.ovh.org/gjermundbu_eng.htm

"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
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Robert P. Wimmers
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Location: Dieren, The Netherlands
Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If one looks at the picture of the original (thorkill site) , one could presume this helmet had a mail neckflap, judging by the still present rings ..... Any thoughts on that ??
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Andres M. Chesini Remic




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: 17 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is usual to hang an aventail on gjermundbu reproductions, but we actually don't know what those rings were holding.
It might have been mail, leather, cheekplates... who knows?

"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
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Nick B.




Location: Upstate N.Y.
Joined: 11 Apr 2007

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andres,
I like Grzegorz Kulig's Gjermundbu helms too, but I hear his wait time is long and you're not going to get one for $250. As for the holes, I'm sure you can tell them you want it without the holes. If you know someone who has one of Kulig's for sale tell them to let me know.
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Andres M. Chesini Remic




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: 17 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Of course Greg's helmets are far beyond the budget, but I only meant that those are the most acurate in desgin... =)
For what I know, the waiting time to buy one is about one and a half year...

The other helmet without the holes seems to be fine (14 gauge is a fair thickness in steel - 2 milimeters! - ). Besides, it includes the padding...
U$S250 is a nice price for it =)

"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
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