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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: Where to get proper historical clothing??         Reply with quote

As an off-shot to the Ren. Fest Clothing thread, I was wondering where everyone buys there stuff.

I'd love to put together a late 12th to early 13th century man-at-arms kit together, but a lot of stuff I find is aimed toward later periods.
Does anyone know of a few places to find what I'm after??
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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 3:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My wife is a seamstress & makes most of our period clothing. There are a lot of "ren-faire" costumes & wares vendors to be found, but you usually have to find a custom maker to get "truly" period type clothing.
Doing a "Google" search on period clothing,will probably turn up quite a bit of info. for you.

Bill

Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 4:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Two pretty good places

http://www.medievaldesign.com/ordinaeng.html

http://www.historicenterprises.com/
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 4:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William Goodwin wrote:
My wife is a seamstress & makes most of our period clothing. There are a lot of "ren-faire" costumes & wares vendors to be found, but you usually have to find a custom maker to get "truly" period type clothing.
Doing a "Google" search on period clothing,will probably turn up quite a bit of info. for you.

Bill


Problem with a google search is that the Ren Fair and SCA business is so much larger than the "living history" business, that you will get a lot of clothing in cotton (or even cotton poly!) and have a hard time sorting through it. In most parts of Europe, unless you were rich, linen and wool were it for clothing. Generally think linen under and wool over...

Gordon
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 4:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for these guys, very helpfull!! Happy
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a number of decent sources, but you are correct - most are later than the period you mention. Bill's lucky in that he has an in-house (literally) resource with his tallented and lovely wife. If I am looking for something period and authentic, I usually either make it myself or barter for it. Finding someone who would be willing to make the pieces for you would possibly be a cheaper and easier route. Check with friends and family first - see if anyone sews well enough. Barring that, do check around - wouldn't be surprised if you could find someone who can help you out. Also, look at any reenactment groups around you and ask about their resources - even if it's not in your period of interest, it may lead you to someone or somewhere that will be useful.

One further possibility is www.revivalclothing.com who has a couple of 12-13th C items.

Good luck! Please let us know what you wind up with - always interested in seeing a good kit!

-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________

Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
There are a number of decent sources, but you are correct - most are later than the period you mention. Bill's lucky in that he has an in-house (literally) resource with his tallented and lovely wife. If I am looking for something period and authentic, I usually either make it myself or barter for it. Finding someone who would be willing to make the pieces for you would possibly be a cheaper and easier route. Check with friends and family first - see if anyone sews well enough. Barring that, do check around - wouldn't be surprised if you could find someone who can help you out. Also, look at any reenactment groups around you and ask about their resources - even if it's not in your period of interest, it may lead you to someone or somewhere that will be useful.

One further possibility is www.revivalclothing.com who has a couple of 12-13th C items.

Good luck! Please let us know what you wind up with - always interested in seeing a good kit!


I know a good seamstres (is that the proper english word), but she would need patterns.

There are one or two local re-enactment groups, I could contact them.

Thanks for all the great help guys. I feel it might take a while before I can get a proper kit together, but when I do, I will post ofcourse. Happy
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 6:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Hoogendam wrote:
I know a good seamstres (is that the proper english word), but she would need patterns.


Yes, "seamstress" or "tailor" would be right. This brings up a good question, though... I use other pieces I have for patterns, or make my own for simpler pieces. I know there are some "historical" patterns out there, but haven't ever put them to use or looked at the actual authenticity of them. Any suggestions for a source of good patterns that will work?

Thomas Hoogendam wrote:
Thanks for all the great help guys. I feel it might take a while before I can get a proper kit together, but when I do, I will post ofcourse. Happy


It's a lot of work to put a good kit together - can take a long time to do so. The end result is wonderful, though, and highly satisfying. Best of luch, Thomas!

-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________

Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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David Etienne




Location: Ittre, Belgium
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Thomas,

Maybe you should take a look at this Polish site : http://www.matuls.pl/english/index.html
For you, Poland is quite less far than the United States...

Cheers,

David
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Etienne wrote:
Hi Thomas,

Maybe you should take a look at this Polish site : http://www.matuls.pl/english/index.html
For you, Poland is quite less far than the United States...

Cheers,

David



hmmm.... Not to bad, and the shipping costs would be low.
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Etienne wrote:
Hi Thomas,

Maybe you should take a look at this Polish site : http://www.matuls.pl/english/index.html
For you, Poland is quite less far than the United States...

Cheers,

David


Just a quick note - Medieval Design is out of Italy.
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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One commom problem with some of the patterns made is that they never are truly the size/measurements proclaimed. I know from watching the spousal unit do stuff and listening to the screams of frustration, that most of the time she does it by eye and says buggers to the pattern. As with making period correct clothing, the same princial applies, as to having as custom made sword, axe, armour and anything really. Alot of research and study is involved. My wife has done stuff from the Medieval period up through the Colonial time and her time of study ,in not just clothing but in the actual textile aspect ,has been tremendous and is an on-going process.

Depending on "how" historical you may wish to go, depends on time of research and how deep one's pockets may be. Qualtiy garments are not cheap.

BTW, Aaron, thanks for the comps on the wife, I'll them along to her.

Bill

Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Making a early 13th cent kit is not very hard.
It consists of
Tunic, wool
Shirt, linen,
hose, wool,
Braie/breches, linen
shoes

The rest is an added bonus.

Patterns:
Tunic
http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html
Shirt:
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/StLouis.html
Hose; in danish, but you get the idea
http://www.laivforum.dk/article.php?cid=357

If you need any more help, send me a PM... (Knowing that I can make simpler pattern than these...)

the big page of excavated garments:
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
Making a early 13th cent kit is not very hard.
It consists of
Tunic, wool
Shirt, linen,
hose, wool,
Braie/breches, linen
shoes

The rest is an added bonus.

Patterns:
Tunic
http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html
Shirt:
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/StLouis.html
Hose; in danish, but you get the idea
http://www.laivforum.dk/article.php?cid=357

If you need any more help, send me a PM... (Knowing that I can make simpler pattern than these...)

the big page of excavated garments:
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html




Wow Elling, thanks, that's great!! Big Grin
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W. R. Reynolds




Location: Ramona, CA
Joined: 07 Dec 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas,

Historic Enterprises while specializing in 14th & 15th c.,can make you just about anything you want. I have known Gwen a long time and anything historically accurate will interest her. Just have a clear idea of what it is you want with maybe a reference to a picture or illustration. I would recommend using period material ( wool, linen, cotton) as they will look right and breath better than most modern stuff.

"Medieval Military Costume" by Gerry Embleton is a good resource as are the Osprey books for modern interpretations. Research the Mackejowski bible illustrations for period stuff. Also try this web site and follow some of the links. You may have to use a translation engine on some of them. Good luck in you endeavor!

http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring=75years;action=list

Hope this link comes across OK. First time I've tried this.

Bill

"No matter who wins the rat race.......they are still a rat."
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David Etienne




Location: Ittre, Belgium
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Clark wrote:

Just a quick note - Medieval Design is out of Italy.


Sorry Gordon, I didn't notice this one Wink

Cheers,

David
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can I make a slightly off-topic remark??

This has been really great, all the help, with a lot clear answers. This is why I love coming to myArmoury. People not only help, they like to help.

Thanks for all the help guys!! Big Grin
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Hoogendam wrote:
Can I make a slightly off-topic remark??

This has been really great, all the help, with a lot clear answers. This is why I love coming to myArmoury. People not only help, they like to help.

Thanks for all the help guys!! Big Grin


I have never seen a forum like it - polite and knowledgable people, no flames, very few problems at all. It is really a testament to the "team" esp Nathan and Patrick. If there is ever a situation where things might get out of control, or even where posts have no legitimate purpose, they deal with it VERY quickly. Ok - I'll shut up before they tell me I'm way off topic. Happy
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a man-at-arms you would also want a gambeson, kettlehat, simple cervilet, or spanghelm, or late model kite shield, spear and hand weapon™.

Gambesons can be made, but take some work. Layered cloth is the most historic approach, but sewing through it can be a bit hard. They can also be bought, but I've made mine, so I never bothered to find out where... Worried

Helmets are available from a number of suppliers. Cheap ones can be acquired at www.gdfb.co.uk, or Shatzkammer;
http://www.xssl-server.de/shop1/index.php?cPath=33_55

The shield easiest made from plywood. Take two 4 or 6 mm plates, and about four long belts, chains or cargo strapps. Apply plenty of glue between the plates, and place the straps armound them. Then, gradually bend the plates, while tightenting the straps to keep the plates in shape. then let dry for a couple of days.
IMPORTANT NOTE; Plywood is only flexible in one direction... Make sure that you cut out your plates accordingly...

Spears are simple contraptions. Get one from a local reenactment smith. This is usually the cheapest option...

Hand weapons; Sword or axe. Axes are usually cheaper, but not as widely sold on the 'net. Our group usually go with Armour class, for fighting purposes
http://www.armourclass.com/Data/Pages/Medieval_Main.htm
if you are just going to look good, Lutel makes very nice swords, with excellent scabbards.
http://www.lutel.cz/index2e.htm

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Thomas Hoogendam




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
For a man-at-arms you would also want a gambeson, kettlehat, simple cervilet, or spanghelm, or late model kite shield, spear and hand weapon™.

Gambesons can be made, but take some work. Layered cloth is the most historic approach, but sewing through it can be a bit hard. They can also be bought, but I've made mine, so I never bothered to find out where... Worried

Helmets are available from a number of suppliers. Cheap ones can be acquired at www.gdfb.co.uk, or Shatzkammer;
http://www.xssl-server.de/shop1/index.php?cPath=33_55

The shield easiest made from plywood. Take two 4 or 6 mm plates, and about four long belts, chains or cargo strapps. Apply plenty of glue between the plates, and place the straps armound them. Then, gradually bend the plates, while tightenting the straps to keep the plates in shape. then let dry for a couple of days.
IMPORTANT NOTE; Plywood is only flexible in one direction... Make sure that you cut out your plates accordingly...

Spears are simple contraptions. Get one from a local reenactment smith. This is usually the cheapest option...

Hand weapons; Sword or axe. Axes are usually cheaper, but not as widely sold on the 'net. Our group usually go with Armour class, for fighting purposes
http://www.armourclass.com/Data/Pages/Medieval_Main.htm
if you are just going to look good, Lutel makes very nice swords, with excellent scabbards.
http://www.lutel.cz/index2e.htm


Thanks Elling. Thankfully, most of these sites are already familiar to me. I have a sword from Lutel, an Armourclass baskethilt is underway, and I've been pondering over which helmet from GDFB I should buy. I will probably be a Spangenhelm.

For late 12th century/early 13th, wouldn't maille be more common then a gambeson?? I was always under the impression that a gambeson was used under a harnas. Or was it used under maille too??
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