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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov, 2003 1:31 pm    Post subject: Angus Trim "Slovenian"?         Reply with quote

OK, here's the question for Angus Trim I already posted, now in a separate thread:

I’m wondering about the “weird looking” Slovenian AT0015 (or DD1402), which allegedly started as a CNC programming error. Can you write something about that? I read somewhere on SFI that someone from Slovenia helped you name it, since he told you that we have many similar swords in our National Museum. I’m curious, since I know “most” (well, I’m not too shure about that) swords in museum, and I’m not aware of any “group” of swords – except for the two “Sempach” type swords… Can you post a picture and write something about it?

OK, I searched a bit, and found this one:


The DD1402 Single Hand Sword from Gus Trim

This is a single hand sword with a wide flattened diamond cross section blade that narrows to a wicket thrusting point. The COP was a little hard to determine on this sword because of the very stiff thrusting blade. Also with a hardwood handle.

Stats;

Blade: 30"
Blade at cross: 2"
Hilt: 5 1/2"
Cross: 8 1/2"
POB: 5 1/2"
COP: 21"
Weight: 2 lb 3 oz

Is this one it? I’m not aware of any sword, similar to this one in our national museum.


Thank you in advance for your reply,

Blaz



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DD1402
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov, 2003 10:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well its true that there was a sword that was named the "Slovenian Kkk-nig-git-ly Sword", and that the blade came to be from a CNC programming error.........*g*

It was my first attempt to do the programming myself, as the first programming system I got wouldn't handle the 3D stuff so I had a neighbor actually do the software stuff. Once I got BobCad 17, all of that changed however........

The Slovenian was supposed to be what later became the "Oakeshott XVIII" or what later became the "Classic XVIII", or what is now the AT1422. However, instead of getting an arc from 11 inches out {from the tip}, I got a straight line. Classic error when one isn't used to a new system.......

By the time I knew the blade wasn't the way it was supposed to be, it was thru heat treat, and rough ground. At that time, it was "what the heck, lets finish it and see what we've got". So I finished it........

The guys from Portland came up for a little cutting party, and a couple of us {Alex Chin and I believe Dave Wilson} did a little cutting with this, including into and thru the rolled top of a steel barrel {where Albion got the idea}. The sword wasn't what it was supposed to be, but it was one hell of a tough little trooper, quite capable of dealing more damage to 55 gal barrels than it received in return.....

I no longer remember exactly what possessed us to call it the Slovenian, but I know it had more to do with the humor of the day than historical accuracy. The cutting party was discussed in detail on the forum, along with the name..... Howy wanted the little guy on his site, so it wound up on his site, with the name just like it looks up above.... humor intact.......

One of these wound up going to Nova Scotia to visit Al Massey. Al had things set up for a rifle barrel cutting session, and had the big guy himself, Randal Graham show up. Both gents, larger fellas than average {with the typical strength that large smiths have} tried a couple of swords, including the Slovenian on a 55 gal barrel up there, and the rifle barrel. Sword came thru unscathed.......

This was all over three years ago........... the sword world was smaller and a much friendlier environment then......{those were the days........sigh}

A few months after all of this, a guy who posted regularly at the time on Netsword's swordsmanship board mentioned that he thought it odd I had named that sword the Slovenian..... because he had seen several similar swords........ He posted as Tomaz, and was reputedly from Slovenia..........

So it wouldn't surprise me if there aren't anything like this in the Slovenian national museum. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if swords similar in Slovenia weren't in use in the fifteenth century...as much of the rest of Europe....If you look at the profile closely, what it resembles more than anything else is a classic XVIII that has been resharpened, and repaired repeatedly.......

That's the reason that the sword proved so capable of dealing with a 55 gal barrel..... the bevel angles from the spine to the edge were steeper than originally planned, making for a very strong edge........

Sorry, no arcane knowledge, no photos, no special provenance....... Just a mistake that performed better than it should have, that set some humor off, that had staying power which started a name that should never have been.............all there is to it.......*g*

swords are fun
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Nov, 2003 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, Angus!

Well, I know this “reputedly Slovenian” Tomaz Lazar personally, and since he studies history (and I think he specialized to medieval arms and armor) he knows the content of our National Museum store rooms much better than I do. I will ask him about those “unlisted” swords.

And believe me, I know about mistakes in CNC programming – I’m working on CNC punching machine every day, and some things just escape you… And this is purely 2D stuff, relatively easy.

I guess you already forgot it, but I’m really wondering why the “Slovenian”? Most of the people don’t even know that that’s a name of a country… Let me think what happened over three years ago… Well, Clinton visited us in June 1999, but I don’t think that would be major news in your country. And Bush and Putin met here in 2001, but I think that’s too late. Other than that, I don’t remember any event that would echo across the Ocean!

And now more questions… Wink Is “rifle barrel” what I think it is? A barrel of a rifle? And you banged your swords on THAT?



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Slovenia in bad weather...


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Fri 07 Nov, 2003 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
Thanks for your reply, Angus!

Well, I know this “reputedly Slovenian” Tomaz Lazar personally, and since he studies history (and I think he specialized to medieval arms and armor) he knows the content of our National Museum store rooms much better than I do. I will ask him about those “unlisted” swords.

And believe me, I know about mistakes in CNC programming – I’m working on CNC punching machine every day, and some things just escape you… And this is purely 2D stuff, relatively easy.

I guess you already forgot it, but I’m really wondering why the “Slovenian”? Most of the people don’t even know that that’s a name of a country… Let me think what happened over three years ago… Well, Clinton visited us in June 1999, but I don’t think that would be major news in your country. And Bush and Putin met here in 2001, but I think that’s too late. Other than that, I don’t remember any event that would echo across the Ocean!

And now more questions… Wink Is “rifle barrel” what I think it is? A barrel of a rifle? And you banged your swords on THAT?


Hi Blaz

Why Slovenian? I really don't know now, except that, that part of Europe was home of some of the grittiest fighting during the fifteenth century, and it just seemed a sword that was more grit than show {by a long shot}, should likely have a name to go along with that.......

Seemed like a good idea at the time..

Yeah, a rifle barrel. Back then someone wanted to prove or disprove whether a rifle barrel could be cut with a sword. The rifle barrel had some cut marks in it, from I think three different swords, but certainly was not cut thru.

Auld Dawg

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Nov, 2003 3:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
The guys from Portland came up for a little cutting party, and a couple of us {Alex Chin and I believe Dave Wilson} did a little cutting with this, including into and thru the rolled top of a steel barrel {where Albion got the idea}.

As a point of fact, people have been bashing their swords into steel barrels and other silly things for many, many years now on the Ren Faire circuit, as well as other places. I saw this being done some 20 years ago here at the California faires. I believe I've even seen Jody Samson do it in Southern faire many years ago. Bottom line: it's nothing new.

Now, back on topic to the Slovenian sword.

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Nathan Bell





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PostPosted: Fri 07 Nov, 2003 5:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had one of the original "Slovenians" for a while. It's a fun little sword.

I think many of us in the online sword community fixated on the "CNC error" description when the sword first came out, and consequently thought the blade should look strange.

In person, it simply looks like a moderately broad-bladed type XV.

'Course, I thought it looked a bit better with less breadth to the guard---I took a few cm off each side and gave it a little polish. Might also look nice with a midridge on the quillon block and maybe a downturned cross, or at least downturned ends....all that stuff is according to your own preference, though.

Overall, though, not so weird looking and felt pretty nice in the hand.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 07 Nov, 2003 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Angus Trim wrote:
The guys from Portland came up for a little cutting party, and a couple of us {Alex Chin and I believe Dave Wilson} did a little cutting with this, including into and thru the rolled top of a steel barrel {where Albion got the idea}.

As a point of fact, people have been bashing their swords into steel barrels and other silly things for many, many years now on the Ren Faire circuit, as well as other places. I saw this being done some 20 years ago here at the California faires. I believe I've even seen Jody Samson do it in Southern faire many years ago. Bottom line: it's nothing new.

Now, back on topic to the Slovenian sword.


I won't mention what kind of things I used to bash swords into years ago Eek!
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