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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > help Insurance price?large BrassRubbingbought At estate sale Reply to topic
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Barry M. Ayres

Joined: 22 Jun 2005

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: help Insurance price?large BrassRubbingbought At estate sale         Reply with quote

Hello members I am looking for insurance price info on a Brass rubbings from Engalnd made in 1971 Below is the history .Does any know of value ? Now that rubbing 's are not allowed at this church anymore.
History: Photo of rubbing can be sent privite for viewing.

The full-face full size effigy of Sir William le Moyne (Moigne), is depicted in full armor, his head resting on a tilting helm, his feet on a couchant lion. The tilting helm is rather striking, for its crest has a half-effigy of a monk in a cowl grasping a scourge with both hands. The face of the monk is missing--either lost or never engraved. The helm itself has a cross promme, that is, with roundels at the ends of the limbs, with roundels at the corners enclosing the cross.
On his head, Sir William wears a bascinet, a pointed helmet worn under the larger helm. Protecting the knight's neck and shoulders is the mail aventail which has been laced or stapled to the decroative rim of the bascinet. Vambrances of metal cover the forearms; rarebraces, the upper arms and shoulders; and couters, the elbows. A hawberk or shirt of mail can be seen at the armpits and just below the scalloped jupon, a sleeveless and probably padded garment worn over both the hawberk and some kind of breastplate either of metal or 'cuir boulli', leather hardened by soaking it in heated wax. On hands clasped in prayer, Sir William has steel gauntlets with articulated plates, under which gloves have been stitched. A decorated baldric or belt supports, at his left side, his sword, one handguard of which is missing, and, on the right, his misericorde, a dagger used to finish off wounded enemies.
Plate armor also protects Sir William's thigh, knees, and feet. The break in the armor between the greaves and the long, pointed steel sabatons on the feet reveals the mail leggings or chausses that Sir William is also wearing. His rowel spurs seem to be buckled at the instep to his sabatons.
Lady Mary Moyce is attired in the fasionable dress of the early fifteenth century--a tight-fitting kirtle, low at the neck, and full in the skirt, with close-fitting sleeves buttoned under the forearms and covering the hands to the knuckles. Over the kirtle, she wears a mantle fastened by a cord whose tassled ends fall to her waist. Her headress is of the crespire fashion, the hair being caught in a jewled net or caul, confinging the hair over the forehead and in bunches above the ears. Here the headdress seems to be held in place by some kind of ornamental circlet or tiara. Over the head, Lady Mary wears the usual veil or coverchef that falls over her shoulders front and back. Her head rests on two cushions, one of which has three tassels missing; and at her feet a small lap dog with a belled collar sits among the folds of her skirt to faze rather defiantly at the lion at Sir William's feet.
The small portion of the Latin marginal inscription that remains reads …. Mense April ano Dni M. CCC. Iiij et Maria ux' ei' quor' … Ame.
Translated: … the month of April in the year of our Lord 1404, and Maria, his wife, on whose … Amen.
The brass once had two shields that were noticed and recorded during the Visitation of 1613. Though the tinctures were not given, one had two bars with three millets (stars) in the chief or upper band at the top of the shield, and the other had these arms impaling a lion rampant with a bordure engrailed, that is, a shield with a lion in attack position, one paw on the ground, three raised, head forward, tail erect, and with a border made ot continuous small semi-circles, their points outwards.
The effigy of Sir Wiliam is 52 1/2 " (136 cm.) high; that of his wife Mary, 53 1/8" (135 cm.). A nearly identical brass exists to Sir Roger Drury and his wife, 1405, at Rougham, Suffolk (q.v.)
The le Moynes were an ancient family, for they held the advowson of All Saints as early as 1130. Indeed, the manor of Sawtry Moyce was one of the earliest endowments of the Abbot of Ramsey who granted lands to Hervey le Moyce between 1120- and 1130 for an annual fee of 4 pounds per year without any feudal duties, though his successors were bound to perform military service. Not surprizingly, the le Moynes gave their name to the parish, and were patrons of the church from 1299 until the death of Sir William le Moyne's wife Mary in 1411.

I know the history it was done 1971 Sawthy England at a small church there do you know anyone to help value a rubbing of this size ?
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Jonathon Janusz

Joined: 20 Nov 2003

Posts: 467

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll pass this information along to my mother and see what she can come up with (antiques dealer for nearly 30 years), and she has recently been picking up rubbings (mostly from China and SE Asia).
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Jonathon Janusz

Joined: 20 Nov 2003

Posts: 467

PostPosted: Thu 30 Jun, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barry, I gave a copy of your post to my mother and this is what she came up with:

Disclaimer: this is not a documentable valuation of the item under discussion and should not be construed as the price one should expect from the artifact if sold as prices antiques collect when sold via private parties, galleries, and auctions vary wildly with trends in the market. It is a VERY ballpark estimate based solely on the information contained in the above post. I say this only because if items are of significant value (especially in the case of antiques) an insurance company will often ask to have a documented appraisal from an accepted authority on file for purposes of making insurance claims later (meaning that if this is the case, you will need to get it professionally appraised for your insurance company).

One more thing, I thought very hard about sending this information via PM rather than posting to the public forum. The reason I decided to post it to the forum is that I would like to open the eyes of the folks in our little community to how truly rare and special these artifacts are. Also, I would hope that folks would keep watch for them such that they may be preserved, studied, and shared with everyone, as in most cases rubbings from original carvings/brasses are no longer allowed to be done (and in some cases, it is illegal to remove them from the country of origin of the original artwork the rubbing was taken from as the original work is considered a national treasure). Further, many of these rubbings (even those done as recently as ten or twenty years ago) are first-generation reproductions of art that is no longer accessible to the public and, like many images of arms and armour from the Victorian era we are today desperately seeking out as the closest thing to primary source material on our topic of interest, it would be sad to lose the opportunity to study and enjoy them.

Okay. . . stepping off my soapbox. . . Ma figures $750 condition unseen because of its size and that you have documentation of the piece's exact place of origin and time it was made, giving a very clear reference to the quality of the rubbing (i.e. very recent rubbings done of artwork that has had rubbings taken constantly for decades are less crisp and detailed than the first few taken; the "copy of a copy of a copy. . ." thing as the original relief image is worn down by rubbing). By the tone of her voice and her nonverbal cues, I would probably give the insurance company a figure of $1000 just to be on the safe side.

Professional mounting/framing using acid-free materials (although expensive) is your friend Happy

. . . and a place for display removed from sunlight wouldn't hurt either Cool

Welcome to myArmoury!
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