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Lancelot Chan
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jul, 2021 3:18 am    Post subject: The Spirit of Realistic Sparring Weapons         Reply with quote

A HEMA coach criticized that I'm only good at sparring with foam swords, not understanding the spirits behind Realistic Sparring Weapons. So this video demonstrate how close the RSW are made to their respective real swords, and how exactly the same one can use them at their real sword speed and power for sparring. The end result is as long as you can do it with your RSW, you can do it with your real swords, at the same reach, speed and power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-8zzHnD69Y

Ancient Combat Association http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: The Spirit of Realistic Sparring Weapons         Reply with quote

Lancelot Chan wrote:
A HEMA coach criticized that I'm only good at sparring with foam swords, not understanding the spirits behind Realistic Sparring Weapons. So this video demonstrate how close the RSW are made to their respective real swords, and how exactly the same one can use them at their real sword speed and power for sparring. The end result is as long as you can do it with your RSW, you can do it with your real swords, at the same reach, speed and power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-8zzHnD69Y


Equipment to do it safely with minimal protective gear: Face, neck and groin should be enough if one is ready to accept a bit of bruising, one can still decide to add some elbow, knee, forearm, solar plexus, and hand protection if one wants to use less control in sparring.

One should always use some degree of control or pulling one's blows after contact in my opinion no matter the level of protective equipment one chooses to use: This is a martial arts, also a sport, fun, and we are not really trying to kill each other. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

Just my personal opinion above about training HEMA in general.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Lancelot Chan
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Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Aug, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: The Spirit of Realistic Sparring Weapons         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Lancelot Chan wrote:
A HEMA coach criticized that I'm only good at sparring with foam swords, not understanding the spirits behind Realistic Sparring Weapons. So this video demonstrate how close the RSW are made to their respective real swords, and how exactly the same one can use them at their real sword speed and power for sparring. The end result is as long as you can do it with your RSW, you can do it with your real swords, at the same reach, speed and power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-8zzHnD69Y


Equipment to do it safely with minimal protective gear: Face, neck and groin should be enough if one is ready to accept a bit of bruising, one can still decide to add some elbow, knee, forearm, solar plexus, and hand protection if one wants to use less control in sparring.

One should always use some degree of control or pulling one's blows after contact in my opinion no matter the level of protective equipment one chooses to use: This is a martial arts, also a sport, fun, and we are not really trying to kill each other. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

Just my personal opinion above about training HEMA in general.


Agree with you totally.

Ancient Combat Association http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Jeff Cierniak




Location: NE United States
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Aug, 2021 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: The Spirit of Realistic Sparring Weapons         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:


One should always use some degree of control or pulling one's blows after contact in my opinion no matter the level of protective equipment one chooses to use: This is a martial arts, also a sport, fun, and we are not really trying to kill each other. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud
.


Totally agree, but should be just before the blow hits, right? That's one thing that I believe is not spoken enough about in HEMA. Discussion is always on gear. But then people say that throws, joint locks, and pommel strikes can't be done safely. Of course they can, it just takes training and control. Gear is important as well, but given the right person I would do light contact sparring with wooden wasters, a mask, gloves, and a cup. Maybe a chest protector and elbows if you wanted to add more. Not trying to put anyone who doesn't agree down, just my point of view.
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Edward Lee




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Aug, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some guy once told me BOTN has alot of random bashing, that the technique he learned in HEMA are not very useful at all since everything came down to who can bash the hardest down to the floor. I guess every club is different.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 04 Aug, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The Spirit of Realistic Sparring Weapons         Reply with quote

Jeff Cierniak wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:


One should always use some degree of control or pulling one's blows after contact in my opinion no matter the level of protective equipment one chooses to use: This is a martial arts, also a sport, fun, and we are not really trying to kill each other. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud
.


Totally agree, but should be just before the blow hits, right? That's one thing that I believe is not spoken enough about in HEMA. Discussion is always on gear. But then people say that throws, joint locks, and pommel strikes can't be done safely. Of course they can, it just takes training and control. Gear is important as well, but given the right person I would do light contact sparring with wooden wasters, a mask, gloves, and a cup. Maybe a chest protector and elbows if you wanted to add more. Not trying to put anyone who doesn't agree down, just my point of view.


My now extinct HEMA training group/club was run by a trainer ( Too modest to call himself a " MASTER " ) had a training philosophy of stopping blows just before contact and at worst pulling one's blows if they did make contact on occasion, in many years with many students I never saw any cases of people injuring each other, but then control was drilled into us from the very beginning. We might wear a fencing mask and light gloves if the sparring was more competitive, but for drills and learning techniques we usually did not wear any protective equipment.

We also all trained together, no separation between new novice trainers and experienced trainers, we all did the same drills together, and also novices might be bouting with the most advanced students in a sort of sink or swim thing !

Even a novice could surprise us by doing something " technically wrong or stupid " but still manage to get a blow in ( Non contact blow that is ) Oh, the more advanced students wouldn't let the novices win, but we did avoid humiliating them by abusing the fact that we knew more than the novices. During training patient/agent drills the more advanced students would give the person learning the technique what they needed to practice a technique in the ideal situation where that technique was the solution to the problem ..... Not always easy to do, but as the patient one isn't at all trying to win since during training winning is not the goal at all, only practicing and learning techniques.

I can remember that a few times when sparring with the owner/instructor of hour HEMA group he would completely stop parrying, or avoiding any attacks to see if we would stop short of hitting him ! Mostly I did not hit him, and he would have a big grin of satisfaction and pride that his student(s) could stop an attack on a dime even when they where expecting a parry to block their blow ! Now, this might not work if dealing with a visiting HEMA practitioner from a different school that did not emphasize control because their style of training included a lot of protective gear and they where used to walling at each other.

The no contact training style is only safe when all of the participants train hard to maintain control !

Now, any training style is a simulation of combat, and different styles using more or less protective equipment with varying reliance on control do create different training artifacts.

The no contact style does mean an honour code of calling perceived hits, but in a bout being 100% sure who won can be difficult to determine ..... But this type of training is not so much for counting points but much more for trying to make techniques work and see if one can get past the other's defence.

I can see some advantages in using safe sword simulators where one can actually hit with relative safety: The best would be to be able to mix and match non-contact training with safe contact training and even harder full contact training using maximum protective equipment.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeff Cierniak




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Aug, 2021 5:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, no-contact has its own drawbacks as well because you're training people to NOT hit. But people often overstate this. It's not that hard to go ahead and hit even if you've been trained not to for so long. For me it's just about taking the level down so you can make contact safely and not rely on equipment alone. Every school and group has their own comfort level too, which is fine. But a fair chunk of HEMA practioners don't really want grappling and pommel strikes etc. in their fencing, which is a shame to me because it's pretty clearly there from the treatises. Just have to train how to do it correctly!

My partner threw me on uneven cobblestone a couple of weeks ago during sparring. He wasn't really supposed to, but because he knows how to throw people safely and I know how to fall, the only thing that hurt slightly was the plastic rondel trainer I had on me digging into my side. Anyhow, I digress, I guess this isn't really about arms and armor anymore!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 05 Aug, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a personal note, my HEMA training partner and I have arranged to have a training session tomorrow: Our first in 2 years since the COVID-19 social distancing thing, as we are now both fully vaccinated.

After my HEMA Club closed down, I have at least kept in touch with another senior trainer and we have been training for many years except during our Canadian Winters: Luckily he is very very good and could even be considered competent to run a HEMA school ..... So, we at least can still train and try some experimental stuff.

Oh, getting back to the original posting on this Topic is that having practice safe sword simulators that can be used with little to no safety equipment is a useful option to vary one's training style.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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