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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Camel Jousting         Reply with quote

I've always been fascinated by the idea of camel jousting, being a bigger fan of camels than of horses. I've found this image from a Persian manuscript that supposedly details bedouin fighting. Interestingly, whether on horseback or on camel-back, this style of using the lance in both hands is referred to by arab sources as the bedouin style. Fun stuff.

Last edited by Alina Boyden on Fri 06 May, 2005 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd love to see camel armour! Eek! Laughing Out Loud
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G. Scott H. wrote:
I'd love to see camel armour! Eek! Laughing Out Loud


Edit


Last edited by Alina Boyden on Fri 06 May, 2005 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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G. Scott H.




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Eek! Do you know what those were made from? Were they primarily decorative, or did they actually protect the camel's head? Do you know if they ever armoured the camel's body in any way, or just the head? Happy
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G. Scott H. wrote:
Wow! Eek! Do you know what those were made from? Were they primarily decorative, or did they actually protect the camel's head? Do you know if they ever armoured the camel's body in any way, or just the head? Happy


No clue. My guess is leather or iron, but I really don't know. I just happened to remember two places for camel armour pics to give to you.
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, but IMHO camels are very nasty animals. I spent time with both camels and horses in Egypt a few decades ago. I get on much better with horses.
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Sorry, but IMHO camels are very nasty animals. I spent time with both camels and horses in Egypt a few decades ago. I get on much better with horses.


I find camels to be friendlier and less tempermental.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could be wrong, but didn't the Mongols and Japanese also used two hands with their spears or naginatas on horseback.

Also horses seemed to shy away from camels and became hard to manage, giving cavalry on camels an advantage over horse cavalvy.

Maybe horses could be trained to fight effectively against camels, but unprepared cavalry would have a nasty surprise.

Horses just didn't like the smell of camels Eek!

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 01 May, 2005 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
I find camels to be friendlier and less tempermental.

I never met a camel that didn't try to take a bite out of me Eek! or spit at me Surprised

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Horses just didn't like the smell of camels

Neither do I.

With camels and horses, people seem to be divided into two camps (similar to the way some of us get along with cats, and others with dogs). I stand firmly in the horse camp. (Also in the dog camp.)
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:
I find camels to be friendlier and less tempermental.

I never met a camel that didn't try to take a bite out of me Eek! or spit at me Surprised

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Horses just didn't like the smell of camels

Neither do I.

With camels and horses, people seem to be divided into two camps (similar to the way some of us get along with cats, and others with dogs). I stand firmly in the horse camp. (Also in the dog camp.)


I like horses, I just also like camels. I want both. As far as cats and dogs, there really is no comparison. You can have a companion for life, or you can have a disgusting little creature that tries to scratch you, bite you, and run away. And this "independence" is supposed to be prized. Sorry, but if I'm paying for you and feeding you then you'd better at least be friendly.
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Could be wrong, but didn't the Mongols and Japanese also used two hands with their spears or naginatas on horseback.

Also horses seemed to shy away from camels and became hard to manage, giving cavalry on horseback an advantage over horse cavalvy.

Maybe horses could be trained to fight effectively against camels, but unprepared cavalry would have a nasty surprise.

Horses just didn't like the smell of camels Eek!


Yes. This style of fighting with the lance was used on horseback by many different peoples - europeans included. It just happens to also have been the preferred bedouin method for fighting from a camel.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2005 1:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I think early European knights may have uses two hands on their spears before couching their spears became standard as a technique using somewhat shorter lances than the later heavy cavalry , or one handed overhand in a stabbing fashion.

And light cavalry of various ethnic groups maybe influenced by Arab or Mongol cavalry techniques probably used twohanded techniques during all periods.

I'm mostly guessing here and I'm sure you know more about it than I do.

Maybe Gordon Frye can chime in here when he is again in a position to do so. (He is in the process of moving at the moment. )

Oh, I corrected a mistake in my earlier post as I meant "Cavalry on Camels " may have had an advantage over horse cavalry. ( Annoying when you see what you meant to write is not what you wrote. Blush )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Folkert van Wijk




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PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2005 2:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
Steve Grisetti wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:
I find camels to be friendlier and less tempermental.

I never met a camel that didn't try to take a bite out of me Eek! or spit at me Surprised

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Horses just didn't like the smell of camels

Neither do I.

With camels and horses, people seem to be divided into two camps (similar to the way some of us get along with cats, and others with dogs). I stand firmly in the horse camp. (Also in the dog camp.)


I like horses, I just also like camels. I want both. As far as cats and dogs, there really is no comparison. You can have a companion for life, or you can have a disgusting little creature that tries to scratch you, bite you, and run away. And this "independence" is supposed to be prized. Sorry, but if I'm paying for you and feeding you then you'd better at least be friendly.


There you have it ,Camels and Horses are indeed no comparison. Besides taking them into a war, they where used in differend ways, Camels ar far more adapted to the desert environment and where good at garying heavy loads for a long time without the need for food or water. Also their (broad) feet ar more adapted to the sand, stone, and rock in the desert.
And I do beleef Camels have more fisical extra's that i now at the moment can't think of like there noses and eyes that are also in a way adapted for dealing with the (fine) sand.

I quess if you take a horse into the desert it would need more extra care en looking after then a camel would...

There for a horse for the desert people would be more a luxery item that only would be apliable for war fare.

Folkert.

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise manů

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nothing to do with camel jousting, but a couple of interesting camel-related articles nonetheless. Happy
http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/camels.html
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/golf/6479.php
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G. Scott H. wrote:
Nothing to do with camel jousting, but a couple of interesting camel-related articles nonetheless. Happy
http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/camels.html
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/golf/6479.php


I love the picture in the second article. Camels *dreamy sigh*
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
G. Scott H. wrote:
Nothing to do with camel jousting, but a couple of interesting camel-related articles nonetheless. Happy
http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/camels.html
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/golf/6479.php


I love the picture in the second article. Camels *dreamy sigh*
Yeah, that one looks really sweet-natured. Here's another tidbit on the Saihati Camel Farm in Yuma, Arizona. http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/features/?id=9151 I knew we had some camel history here in AZ, but I didn't really know the full story until you brought up this subject, inspiring me to do some searching on the net. Funny how one thing leads to another. I may just have to go down to Yuma and check this place out. Happy
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G. Scott H.




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PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Folkert van Wijk wrote:
And I do beleef Camels have more fisical extra's that i now at the moment can't think of like there noses and eyes that are also in a way adapted for dealing with the (fine) sand.Folkert.


Indeed, camels have a double row of thick eyelashes, thick hair in their ears, and the ability to close their nostrils, all in order to keep blowing sand out of these areas. These features, along with the others you mentioned, make the camel one of the most striking examples of a creature being perfectly designed for its environment. Happy
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Folks,

Since we've never really discussed anything hear other than the camel's debateable disposition, this thread has been moved to this forum. Big Grin

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
you can have a disgusting little creature that tries to scratch you, bite you, and run away. And this "independence" is supposed to be prized. Sorry, but if I'm paying for you and feeding you then you'd better at least be friendly.

Some might say the same thing about children... Big Grin

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Oster wrote:
Alina Boyden wrote:
you can have a disgusting little creature that tries to scratch you, bite you, and run away. And this "independence" is supposed to be prized. Sorry, but if I'm paying for you and feeding you then you'd better at least be friendly.

Some might say the same thing about children... Big Grin
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