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Richard K





Joined: 01 Jul 2019

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject: Custom mail         Reply with quote

So I've been looking for custom mail shirt makers and custom-chainmail seems to be out of business. Does anyone know where else I can send in measurements and have a shirt made? There's plenty of sites with ready made ones that I'd rather not wager sizing roulette on.
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Mar, 2021 9:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How much do you want to spend?
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Richard K





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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 2:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
How much do you want to spend?


Roughly 500 USD
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 4:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard K wrote:
Dan Howard wrote:
How much do you want to spend?

Roughly 500 USD

For that sort of money you have to buy cheap Indian riveted mail and modify it yourself. At that price all you get is a tube with sleeves - no tailoring. The reason why custom mail makers are no longer in business is because nobody wants to pay for quality tailored mail. You'd need to pay around $3,000-$5,000 for something that is half decent.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And $25,000 for something approaching the real thing. . . If Erik Schmidt is even making maille any more.

Maille production just isn't feasible in our modern commercial system. It's the medieval reproduction item hardest to get right and realistic for the average person to afford. You can get a fully smelted iron and steel sword with authentic inlay- balanced like the originals for around $3500-$5000 but not so with maille.

There's just so much work involved. I have given up on the idea of getting some maille because available reproductions are SO far off the mark.
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Arne G.





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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What Dan said. You're either going to have to do it yourself or be willing to spend $$$

Note that DIY is not so hard - the toolset is minimal and fairly inexpensive. Just buy the "basic" hauberk, metal snips to cut out the extraneous rings, loose rings to do the tailoring, and the riveting tool(s). You'll find plenty of folks willing to provide guidance as to what to do, along with documentation such as Burgess' articles on the subject. It'll take some effort but it can be done.

One thing to keep in mind is that the ready made rings from India are not really all that historically accurate in appearance (among other things the overlaps are always over-flattened giving a weird tabbed appearance that looks off even from a distance) so while you can improve the fit and general look, the detail look is always going to be a little wrong.
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This might prove edifying.
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19189

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Simon Schw.





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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arne G. wrote:
What Dan said. You're either going to have to do it yourself or be willing to spend $$$


Considering the work that goes into making mail armour, that is quite understandable.

I'd be interested though: Where could one buy high-quality mail for $$$?
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try to contact Erik Schmid and see if he is up for making any. Look to spend $25,000 or so
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Henry R. Gower




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Authentic maille         Reply with quote

I've mainly approached this hobby from the point of view of swords. I am not into reenacting now, briefly in the past, and i remember not liking the maille shirt I bought for about 350. USD Years ago, which I turned around and sold.
Just in one fell swoop, reading this thread, i learned stuff that would take weeks to learn otherwise. It boggles my mind that it would cost 25k for a proper job. That is a few thou. more than my family car cost new, and it is a midsize import. Amazing ! Well, faced with this prospect, I think I would try some sort of work around. An aketon or brigandine, coupled with a nice helmet, adjust my period of interest a bit, anything that would allow me to escape such a price tag which would be matrimonially speaking, impossible ! Not to mention we are both retired.
As an academic exercise, I'm now wondering whether it would be possible to assemble a kit of armours that would be period acceptable and cost in the hundreds, at least under a thousand. Just a thought for the original poster of the thread who indicated his budget was about 500. USD My mother used to say, if the front door is locked, try the back door, failing that, try the window ! Old European proverb from her country. Anyway, that's my two cents.
Henry
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can get a decent approximation of the right appearance with butted links. They need to be pretty small (4-5mm OD) and they need to be alternated with solid links. You have to get pretty close to tell that there are no rivets.
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T. Kew




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2021 3:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Isak Krogh is able to make really good mail, fully from wire. He's probably where I'd go if I was looking for a repro that's as accurate as possible.

There are also some folks who will do the compromise setup of retailoring and reassembling garments that start as Indian mail. Tom Biliter in the US is one, Mark Hale in the UK is another, Isak is a third. For functional use, e.g. mail components being used as part of an armour for armoured combat, this is a really solid way to go - you get the fit of proper tailoring, and most of the defensive benefits of solid riveting (particularly if your maker is willing to go through and check all the pre-set links).

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you're constrained by budget, and if you're not doing historical re-enactment, then I would go fantasy. Historical accuracy simply costs money and time. Lots of it. Lord of the Rings is a heck of a lot easier to pull off. Besides, outside of a rare historical event, you might run into 6 people that know that Dirk the Barbarian lived in 1987 and not 1272.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Mar, 2021 2:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Kew wrote:
There are also some folks who will do the compromise setup of retailoring and reassembling garments that start as Indian mail. Tom Biliter in the US is one, Mark Hale in the UK is another, Isak is a third. For functional use, e.g. mail components being used as part of an armour for armoured combat, this is a really solid way to go - you get the fit of proper tailoring, and most of the defensive benefits of solid riveting (particularly if your maker is willing to go through and check all the pre-set links).

Indian links are no good no matter how they are put together. The lapped section is too large and too thin. They look like soda can ring-pulls and the thin metal tears too easily. If you just want protective mail and don't care about appearance or accuracy then use welded links, not half-arsed riveted links.

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T. Kew




Location: London, UK
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 12:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:

Indian links are no good no matter how they are put together. The lapped section is too large and too thin. They look like soda can ring-pulls and the thin metal tears too easily. If you just want protective mail and don't care about appearance or accuracy then use welded links, not half-arsed riveted links.


You can't tailor welded links, and when it's being used to make mail voiders or other such "fill in the gaps" components, that tailoring is super important for being able to still move. "Half-arsed" riveting is still significantly stronger than butted. By using relatively small links and making sure the rivets are set well you can get adequate protection. Pretty much everybody who's doing armoured combat with thrust weapons is using precisely this sort of riveted mail.

HEMA fencer and coach, New Cross Historical Fencing
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Richard K





Joined: 01 Jul 2019

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think there's a market for "cheat Indian mail" except it's made to tailor that doesn't cost 25K. Custom-chainmail use to be it, but unfortunately it's gone.
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Kew wrote:
You can't tailor welded links.

Yes you can. The easiest way to weld a link is to use tongs to apply pressure while heating the join. It takes no longer than piercing and peining a riveted join.

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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard K wrote:
I think there's a market for "cheat Indian mail" except it's made to tailor that doesn't cost 25K.

It already exists. As said above, it costs $3,000-$5,000 instead of $25,000. You were never going to get tailored riveted mail for $500 no matter how it was made.

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote


I've removed the posts that are completely OFF-TOPIC to the subject of arms and armour and contained personal attacks. People, don't add that to this site. Stay on-topic to the discussion of arms and armour.

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Edward Lee




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Might not be what you are looking for but there is a custom wleded mail maker called "Master Knut".
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