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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 618

PostPosted: Thu 04 Mar, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: St. Annen Museum Messer Information         Reply with quote

Does anyone have any photos or details of the multi-fullered, straight bladed messer held in the St. Annen Museum? I would like to have a reproduction made, but beyond OAL and weight, details are hard to come by.


'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Johannes Zenker





Joined: 15 Sep 2014

Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar, 2021 4:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you tried reaching out to Roland Warzecha about it? If he took that photo, he might have also made more detailed shots and measurements of this very interesting piece.
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Christian Henry Tobler




Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 704

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes Ian, definitely contact Roland. I was with him during the visit to the St. Annen, and handled this very piece. I believe he has quite a few photos of it.

The handling on this messer was amazing, btw.

In the meantime, here's a picture from that day:



Best wishes,
Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 618

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you both for your advice, I went ahead and contacted Roland as well as James Elmslie for good measure. Hopefully, this will bear some fruit! Christian, your tease about the handling has put some pressure on to make it feel right. Is there anything else you recall? Forward presence, balance?
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Christian Henry Tobler




Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 704

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar, 2021 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Ian,

Well, it's been 11 years, but I do recall it having a bit of forward presence, but at the same time being very agile.

I ran it through all of the major strokes found in Messerfechten treatises.

Now, Roland has visited the St. Annen at least once since we both went there, so he'll likely have more details on handling.

Best regards,
Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 618

PostPosted: Mon 14 Jun, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As an update for anyone else seeking this information, Roland replied:

Quote:
The messer is published in:
Barbara von Grotkamp-Schepers, Isabel Immel, Peter Johnsson & Sixt Wetzler: Das Schwert. Gestalt und Gedanke The Sword. Form and Thought. Ausstellungskatalog zur gleichnamigen Ausstellung im Deutschen Klingenmuseum Solingen vom 26.9.2015-28.2.2016. Solingen 2015, pp 126/127

Therein you can find Peter Johnsson's drawing of the weapon, two photographs, plus the following stats:
Total length: 852 mm
Total width: 152 mm
Blade length: 705 mm
Blade width: 55 mm
Blade thickness: 6.5 mm
Weight: 1078 g
Point of balance: 127 mm (from the cross)

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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