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Daniel Sullivan




Location: California
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
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Posts: 218

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Attaching mail to a basinet         Reply with quote

Just restarted a 3-4 year old project, that of finishing up a couple of basinets. Am wondering about historically correct methods of attaching mail to the leather that will be fastened to the helmet. Have noticed in some cases it is stitched and others the top row of rings pierce the leather and are riveted. Also, is there any date, era, or locale associated with either method?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Dan
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Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 82

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The stitching is for the helmet lining, not the mail. The mail or aventail is held on with vervelles. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vervelles)
These are studs, that have a hole through them, which are peened around the base of the helmet. Then the mail and sometimes mail lining are attached to a leather strip, which has corresponding holes that line up with the vervelles, spaced around the base of the helmet. Then a cord is threaded though the vervelle holes, trapping the leather which holds the mail.
The aventail is lined with fabric, typically with thin padding. Most common in modern reproduction, is not to use a lining, this is incorrect, and results in the mail looking sloppy and unruly.
I had to find this link:
Here is a great example of a lined aventail, and an unlined one. You can see how the unlined one is practically worthless as protection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HD2d2krzAw&fbclid=IwAR0vAZ268_mei2NUkM8vshLbydqZMeLq85dfjid4ysLMtpil3_HcJbgsRfs

Chris
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Daniel Sullivan




Location: California
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Likes: 11 pages

Posts: 218

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris,

Thank you for the quick reply. Both helmets are lined with a heavy rough cotton (looks like linen) stitched through 35 + holes at the edges. The aventails are both stitched with the same padding material. Both helmets have the vervelles riveted in place (one set brass/one set mild steel. The leather is pierced for the vervelles.

In Hans Prunner's book, The Gwynn Collection, page 89, the mail seem to be stitched or wired to the leather. Prunner's, The Churburg Armoury, pages 34, 35, 36, and 37, it is very clear the mail is "stitched" in place with cord. Another of Prunner's pubs. The Wallace Collection, pages 52-53 also show stitching or cord holding the mail to the leather. Yet, as stated in my first post i have seen a few that it appears that the mail rings pierce the leather.

I suppose that after all these who can tell how the original was configured? Could be the stitching was an "after market" effort by a low paid conservator in a hurry????

Cheers,
Dan
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Victor R.




Location: Klein, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 294

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is how mine was done. Mid-14th klappvisor bascinet with pipe/barrel vervelles. This was a Germanic style. The leather holding the maille (I didn't spring for the more accurate riveted at the time) is slotted for the vervelles and a heavy leather lace is strung through the vervelles to keep it in place. The maille is affixed to the leather with a row of rings.

The main difference with stud vervelles is the shape of the hole in the leather and a smaller hole in the vevelle for a wire rather than a leather lace. I suppose you could use bigger studs with bigger holes to accommodate leather lacing if you chose - not sure that it is more or less correct using the wire.



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Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 82

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec, 2020 3:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Daniel,
I mis-read what you posted and thought you where asking if the mail was sewn directly to the helmet.
Mail sewn to the leather, yes. I think the piercing the leather is perhaps a 19th C invention, but not sure.

The lining I was referring to is under the mail.
Here is a helmet I made many years ago, with the mail sewn to the leather strip, and the mail fully lined.

Chris
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