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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Spider Web quillon dagger         Reply with quote

Hello

I'm looking for more information on this dagger, it is dubbed as the "Spiderweb dagger" on Tod's workshop.
https://todsworkshop.com/collections/historical-daggers/products/english-spider-web-quillon

It's a very interesting dagger, with a thick blade and feels like a shortsword in hand(I have small hands). However I cannot find any information on it not even a picture. The description on Tod's site is of 14th century English origin, and the trail seems to end there. Would like to know more about this pieces.

Thanks and merry christmas everyone.
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Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you asked the maker for some more background on the history of the inspiration for the piece? I have no information or thoughts otherwise. I am curious as well as this piece has caught my attention.
Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
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Mark Lewis





Joined: 19 Apr 2014

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Posts: 381

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 4:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The original is number X.7 in the Royal Armouries, should be accessible online. There is another similar one in Brussels.
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Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-20077.html

Here it is. Thank you for the additional information Mark.

Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 376

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 6:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, I searched over google for 14th century English dagger and nothing of the sort popped up. Again thanks alot.
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HI Edward,

Yes you should have just asked!

The original isfrom the Royal Armouries and I thought it was unique, which I believe the RA also thinks, but Mark Lewis wrote
Quote:
There is another similar one in Brussels.
. I would love to see this.

I will use the word unique until I see another, but either way very unusual. I have not seen anything like it and I am pretty sure the dating of the RA is more a guess than a known fact. The blade is a single edged and has the rather odd false edge sections on the back, but in and of itself hav ing slightly odd blade sections is not unusual so nothing too exciting there, it is mainly the clearly web inspired decoration that is curious. It does in fact have a similar blade to x1700 also at Leeds

The official pictures show the dagger as it is now, but I spent considerable time messing about with the images and reversing colour balance and crashing the contrast up and down and actually there is more detail left than the images reveal on the surface and the spiderweb motif is really there if you look deep enough.

I hope that helps

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 616

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This 'back dagger' Royal Armouries X.7 reminds me of a backsword from the Castillion horde which James G. Elmslie studied. Some 15th century English armour has what might be cobwebbey motifs on the wings of the couters and poleyns doesn't it?
www.bookandsword.com
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Mark Lewis





Joined: 19 Apr 2014

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
I would love to see this.

Hi Leo,
I can offer only a couple low quality images that I found online at some point, I think it is from the Royal Museum of Fine Arts specifically.





I notice now that the Royal Armouries actually has a second dagger with the same style of cross. It is mentioned in the description of X.7, and is also online now: the number is X.689. This one they have dated to the 16th century - I'm guessing based on the pommel specifically, which does appear a later style... perhaps a replacement?
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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 376

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for the input!

These image shows almost identical guard but not pommel, I wonder what they represent? It's an excellent repro you made Tod, I like the thick spine better than the original.
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