Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Fabrice Cognot Baselard Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Alec Cawdor




Location: NY
Joined: 15 May 2015

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 07 Dec, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Fabrice Cognot Baselard         Reply with quote

I finally received my 14th Century Baselard from Mr. Fabrice Cognot in France, inspired by X.297 in the Royal Armouries.

Here is a quick video showcasing the Baselard: https://youtu.be/LqOTihpjN20
View user's profile Send private message
Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 807

PostPosted: Tue 08 Dec, 2020 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice piece from a very nice guy! Congratulations!
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,269

PostPosted: Tue 08 Dec, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Fabrice Cognot Baselard         Reply with quote

Alec Cawdor wrote:
I finally received my 14th Century Baselard from Mr. Fabrice Cognot in France, inspired by X.297 in the Royal Armouries.

Here is a quick video showcasing the Baselard: https://youtu.be/LqOTihpjN20


I had a look at your Youtube review of the Baselard and I'm impressed with the quality of the review itself and your Youtube speaking presence. Lots of good information and research learning some new things from it.

The Baselard does have the look of a well made period piece and not the near perfect look of modern reproduction, as you mention.

I do have a Tod's Workshop Baselard inspired I think from the same museum piece.( Tod's version also doesn't look machine made, but maybe a bit closer to modern aesthetic perfection preferences ..... Sort of a tweener maybe ? )

I agree that the period use of a Baselard, or other dagger in fighting, was very " Stabby Stabby " using the ice pic grip in many subtle ways. ( I did do a 3 month course in the use of the medieval dagger more than a decade ago. )

Although maybe not the way it would have been used most of the time in period due in part I think to the heavy and difficult textile clothing of the time to cut or pierce, I disagree slightly about using a handshake grip being that uncomfortable in the hand.

Matt Easton mentioned in one of his videos that the Baselard was uncomfortable in the forward handshake grip.

Personally I find it comfortable in the handshake grip in the same way I find a Viking sword comfortable in the same grip.

Now I will conceded that the grip is ideal for icepick or hammer grip, but using the handshake grip means that thrusts are not exclusively limited to the type of attacks using it in the forward hammer grip as shown by Matt in his video.

So, not saying that it was historically used very much in the handshake grip, only that I personally find it easy enough to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqKifRdjC8

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 596

PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec, 2020 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Fabrice Cognot Baselard         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
I agree that the period use of a Baselard, or other dagger in fighting, was very " Stabby Stabby " using the ice pic grip in many subtle ways. ( I did do a 3 month course in the use of the medieval dagger more than a decade ago. )

Although maybe not the way it would have been used most of the time in period due in part I think to the heavy and difficult textile clothing of the time to cut or pierce, I disagree slightly about using a handshake grip being that uncomfortable in the hand.

Matt Easton mentioned in one of his videos that the Baselard was uncomfortable in the forward handshake grip.

Personally I find it comfortable in the handshake grip in the same way I find a Viking sword comfortable in the same grip.

Here is how Italian baselards usually fit in the hand in art.



(sources in What reproductions can and can't teach you)

The handle is 4 or 4 1/2 fingers long like Fabrice's replica. But if you order by mail, the size which is right for most hands will be too short for some, so makers tend to build them with handles which are at the long end of the historical range of variation. A sabre grip with the thumb up the back of the handle feels natural with these long handles and a medium-sized hand, but its not common in art or the fencing manuals.

www.bookandsword.com
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,269

PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Fabrice Cognot Baselard         Reply with quote

Sean Manning wrote:


The handle is 4 or 4 1/2 fingers long like Fabrice's replica. But if you order by mail, the size which is right for most hands will be too short for some, so makers tend to build them with handles which are at the long end of the historical range of variation. A sabre grip with the thumb up the back of the handle feels natural with these long handles and a medium-sized hand, but its not common in art or the fencing manuals.


Oh, I'm not disagreeing with the iconography that In Europe at this time the most common way to use a dagger was with the Icepick grip.

I'm was just observing that " ME " in 2020 has no problem using a handshake grip, just making the point that it's possible with the Baselard made by Tod of Tod's Works.

I just measured the handle and it's exactly 4" long and not a modern exaggerated length handle.

In the handshake grip I use the thumb may be in a sabre grip but the " T " of the end of the handle is resting on the side of my palm and between the base of my thumb at an angle touching the base of my small finger.

I'm just talking ergonomics and how the dagger handle can be held but not making any statement about if it was done commonly or at all in period. Most of the Fiore dagger use is point down icepick grip.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 596

PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fabrice Cognot Baselard         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
I just measured the handle and it's exactly 4" long and not a modern exaggerated length handle.

In the handshake grip I use the thumb may be in a sabre grip but the " T " of the end of the handle is resting on the side of my palm and between the base of my thumb at an angle touching the base of my small finger.

I'm just talking ergonomics and how the dagger handle can be held but not making any statement about if it was done commonly or at all in period. Most of the Fiore dagger use is point down icepick grip.

A 10 cm / 4" long handle is the size of handle which seems to be right at the largest end of the historical range of length. I don't think a 10 cm long grip on an Italian / scale-tang baselard is wrong for most people, but if you were shopping in Bologna in 1370, I think the cutlers would recommend it for use with an armoured hand and point most customers towards something with an 8.5 or 9 cm long handle. You could choose such a long handle if it suited your taste, but probably if you wanted a knife to fence with you would pick a chef's knife or quillon dagger or ballock dagger.

The only medieval painting I know which shows a baselard which fits the hand like this ...



is this:



I love how my baselard feels, but I think it teaches me different things than one with a shorter handle would.

www.bookandsword.com
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Fabrice Cognot Baselard
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2021 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum