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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 81

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2020 2:33 am    Post subject: Migration Sword question?         Reply with quote

Good day,

Are there any behmer hilt types that use different solid metal plates sandwiched together and riveted for the guard and pommel while the grip is one solid metal piece of some kind? Or is there a behmer hilt type that was fully composed of one piece for each part of the hilt, say bronze or some form of copper alloy? From my research the Albion Mark, First Generation Kragehul Bog sword (as an example) iconic piece could of been made from bronze or some copper alloy for the hilt throughout? Seems to be from my research behmer type 5 would be correct for the Albion Kragehul Bog sword? Any other types, behmer type 8, 9 could be the hilt construction I speak of?

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 763

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Type 5 is mostly wood, covered by thin metal sheets.
Type 8 has iron guards, covered by wood / organic material on both sides
Type 9 is more or less similar in construction as Carolingian / Viking age swords (iron lower guard, upper guard and pommel cap)

Pommel caps are often more or less hollow as well, although the material thickness varies.

I'm not sure what you mean with "while the grip is one solid metal piece of some kind?". A solid metal grip (i.e. without a wooden core) would I think be too heavy and also not as good at dampening vibrations as a wooden grip (whether covered by thin metal sheet, leather, cloth or not covered).
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 81

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul,

Sorry I was tired when I wrote that. Disregard. I understand what you are saying though regarding hilt construction per the types and reason why. For the Fetter Lane types that Patrick Barta has created, (catalogue 123, 147) I know it says gilded although it looks solid for the sandwich construction of pommel, guard and grip. Would you be able to at all clarify for me? So there’d be organic wood or bone of some type underneath the gilding? If I was wanting such a hilt, although plain, such a type would fall under behmer type 8, 9?

Thanks for the reply Paul.

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 763

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I think the Fetter Lane sword is a bit of an outlier.

Migration / Merovingian age swords are very diverse so no surprise there but still.

I would say that it could be a Behmer type 6, just like sword 133 on Patrick Barta's site.

A Google search on Fetter Lane sword yielded this, which I think could well be the correct way to replicate that sword:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/gyypdf/castlekeep_fetter_lane_sword_fittings_and/

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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 407

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jul, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any thoughts on this hilt construction? https://sword-site.com/thread/566/germanic-sword-migration-age
Leonard Parker
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 763

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
Any thoughts on this hilt construction? https://sword-site.com/thread/566/germanic-sword-migration-age


That kind of swords is a completely different matter.
I think it is steppe nomadic, maybe Sarmatian? It's not Hunnic, Alan or Avar, as far as one can be certain about such things. But as far as I know, there has never been any serious research on the topic.

Quite a lot of these swords have been misrepresented in older literature, including Behmer. What appears to be the pommel is likely actually a sword pearl, and what appears to be the guard may well be a part of the scabbard, either the throat or even the chape. It seems this sword is either wrongly restored, likely in the period 1850-1950, or even a fake from the same period.

Here's another similar sword from the same website, for which most of the same comments apply (although less clearly so):
https://sword-site.com/thread/261/exceptional-merovingian-spatha-sword

And yet another interesting steppe sword:
https://sword-site.com/thread/306/migration-lenticular-bladed-sword-embellished
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 407

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the response, I didn't consider a dodgy reconstruction.
Leonard Parker
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