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Maciej K.
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Location: Poland
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2020 3:46 pm    Post subject: Any "double Passau wolf" signature version seen ar         Reply with quote

Hi,
Does anyone know and see anywhere the Passau wolf signature but a double wolf version?
I mean two wolves side by side, one after the other, seen on one side of the blade, as attached example.
I am looking for any analogies.
Thanks in advance!



 Attachment: 24.67 KB
pas2.jpg


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a million versions and variations of this mark. They're loosely added even by the same makers. They were more often counterfeit (in period) than real.

The mark was usually different on each side of the sme blade as in this (surely counterfeit) example:



I think it's hard to interpret these things visually as meaning "two wolves" vs "one wolf" as they were hastily added to the blades without much concern.

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Maciej K.
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2020 2:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I realize that Nathan.
I have an extensive database about this subject since many years. (H. Huther, S. Kinman, M. Głosek, W.M. Schmid, E. Oakeshott, M. Aleksic, L. Marek and more ...)
At this case I meant exactly two wolfs on one side example. I know only one version of this signature with double wolfs on one side of the blade (around middle of 15th century).
I was looking for other examples, if there are some, if anyone saw. I believe it would be easy to recognize two wolfs instead just one Happy

We know this signature was in use since around 1260 for Passau, then Solingen workshops and then some Hungarian makers. But each blade has just one wolf on each side always, plus the maker`s stamp / inlay closer to the crossguard, and sometimes additional mark (crozier, dagger, cross, letter, etc).

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Daniel Parry




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2020 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have not seen two wolf marks on one side of a blade personally. If you've got Kinman's book you probably have the best resource although I have found other tables of running wolf marks in other places online. Seen single marks and triple marks, generally either on one side of a ricasso or both sides of a forte of the blade, but not two on one side only.
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Maciej K.
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Location: Poland
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply Daniel. That`s what I thought, actually. Just wanted to be sure if I didn`t miss something.
That can be then a precedent - or fake. However, all othe data suggest the sword I'm studying right now was original...
Well, we will see. Thanks a lot!

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Daniel Parry




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PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you got a picture of the sword ? What period/type is it ?

D
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Maciej K.
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It`s about the famous missing sword assigned to emperor Albrecht II Habsburg (it is in Oakeshott`s "Records..." but with mistaken blade length and only one bad quality photo, page 186).
Me, my friend Julian Matthias Ronneberger are writing a full study with reconstruction of this sword. Peter Johnsson is making the geometry analysis, which will be included in this publication.
And this sword has double wolf mark Happy On both sides, which gives 4 wolfs on one sword Big Grin I coudn`t find any analogous examples, so decided to ask here, maybe someone saw such a signature.

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 12:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maciej K. wrote:
It`s about the famous missing sword assigned to emperor Albrecht II Habsburg (it is in Oakeshott`s "Records..." but with mistaken blade length and only one bad quality photo, page 186).
Me, my friend Julian Matthias Ronneberger are writing a full study with reconstruction of this sword. Peter Johnsson is making the geometry analysis, which will be included in this publication.
And this sword has double wolf mark Happy On both sides, which gives 4 wolfs on one sword Big Grin I coudn`t find any analogous examples, so decided to ask here, maybe someone saw such a signature.


What is the actual blade length?
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Maciej K.
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 2:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Luka Happy true blade length was 970mm. There is actually several mentions and much more informations about that sword. It just needed to dig much deeper Big Grin We will publish soon full study, incl. both sides photos of the sword with details, close-up view and all measurements, materials used, story behind, etc.
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Tyler C.




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maciej K. wrote:
Hi Luka Happy true blade length was 970mm. There is actually several mentions and much more informations about that sword. It just needed to dig much deeper Big Grin We will publish soon full study, incl. both sides photos of the sword with details, close-up view and all measurements, materials used, story behind, etc.


I have nothing to add in your search for other examples of a double Passau mark, but I did want to add that I'm looking forward to your research on this blade. Where will you be publishing your findings?
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Maciej K.
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Tyler. I think everywhere Happy
Here, on my website, on my FB profile, and more. We believe that is important work and a special sword.

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Daniel Parry




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Likewise, very interested to see the outcome and the handling properties. I think you'll have enough wolves on there, anyway, with two a side Wink
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2020 4:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maciej K. wrote:
Hi Luka Happy true blade length was 970mm. There is actually several mentions and much more informations about that sword. It just needed to dig much deeper Big Grin We will publish soon full study, incl. both sides photos of the sword with details, close-up view and all measurements, materials used, story behind, etc.


Cool, I like it more now. Wink
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