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Jen Tousey




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 12 Jan 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan, 2020 7:47 am    Post subject: sword identification?         Reply with quote

Hello!
I am trying to figure out the mystery of the sword in our family. It hangs on a wall and no one seems to know where it came from. In my research I think it's a dove head pommel and I think it might be german or austrian? no idea of the time period or anything. I'm hoping one of you folks who are far smarter then I can shed some light on this. Maybe if I know where and when it came from I can connect it to an ancestor. I have some more photos...of the number embossed on it. Any thoughts and guidance is appreciated. Happy Happy New Year!



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Victor R.




Location: Klein, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 280

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not my area of expertise, but there are many in the group. What most will tell you right off: the more pictures, the better.

The kinds of things they want are full blade, both sides, and close-ups of any markings. Typically you'll find the most info up near he ricasso/base of the blade near the guard. Also, some guards will have a mark stamped into them - the bottom of the knuckle bow will sometimes (oftentimes?) be marked on a military sword. The better resolution you can get on stampings and engravings, the better someone will be able to help with identification. Also, if there are any markings/engravings on the scabbard and info on its composition, that will also be helpful. For example, the pictures you did post suggest the scabbard might be leather covered with brass throat/locket and chape, but the tarnish and darkness of the photos make it difficult to confirm.

If you believe the scabbard is too delicate to handle, maybe some higher res photos with better lighting could give enough info to send you down a path.

Good luck!
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Jen Tousey




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 12 Jan 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm attaching a couple more photos in hopes of getting some more help. As you mentioned, there is indeed a number so guessing this is a military sword of some kind. Hopefully someone has an eye and can give more information. I'm attaching all the photos I have below. You are correct...the scabbard is falling apart so best not handled. Thank you for the initial contact and in advance to anyone else who can help.


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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,919

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The sword appears to be along the lines of the French 1767 light cavalry but this one may not be French an a style remaining well into the 19th century. I would wager it is German made and later than the use by the French of this general influences of the model 1767.

Let me see if this will attach re the French. Well I have it in a cloud From a series of files of the Petard articles.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9AOFMA8y3ODUzZfRWVsQW12S1U/view?usp=sharing

https://oldswords.com/articles/FRENCH%20MILITARY%20SWORD%20IN%2018th%20CENTURY%20_PartII_.pdf
Also more on oldswords.com


Cheers
GC
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Jen Tousey




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 12 Jan 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Glen, I will check out both the links you sent and read in depth. I see some great information here which confirmed my 'no knowledge self' in thinking it was indeed German made.
Do I understand you correctly in thinking it is from the late 1700's? or influenced by that time period and could be later than that?

If I can at least pinpoint a time frame and/or a war, I may be able to attach the artifact to a family member and learn more that way.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,919

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can only write that the form came from the French styling, While I know of similar swords in the first half of the 19th century. Indeed, the hilts recycled as parts put together much later.

How long is the blade? Just measure in a straight line from the hilt to the point.

Perhaps one of the largest hints at it being somewhat. later is the P shaped guard vs the plain stirrup of the French 1767.

Cheers
GC
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Jen Tousey




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 12 Jan 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The sword is 28 inches without scabbard. 29.5 with sheath.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,919

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade (just the blade) at 28"?

You will find similar listed as infantry and grenadiers, etc. A sword meant for someone afoot and not on horseback.

If the total sword (tip to end of the handle) is 28" then the blade would be only about 23"?

Cheers
GC
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Jen Tousey




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 12 Jan 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just the blade, as per your first instructions from hilt to tip of blade. The 28" does not include the hilt. so it is an infantry sword?

If I understand you correctly, your initial best guess it to be the following:

Likely infantry sword
Likely early 1800's
Likely French influence but Probably German made

The mystery deepens...
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