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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jan, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject: "Collars" on medieval sword grips.         Reply with quote

Not sure if there is a more correct term for this; in the Viking Age they seem to have been called "vettrim". Anyway, I was looking for more information and examples regarding these so called "collars" as I am reworking an old A&A sword and would like to incorporate this feature. I am specifically trying to replicate something similar to Oakeshott's "Morgarten" sword that was examined in detail in Records of the Medieval Sword (see attached photo).

I've run into a brick wall with trying to braze thin sheet metal with multiple fails. While I think I can fix this, I am interested in other period correct options that may or may not exist - ideally I'd like to make simple (or perhaps mildly ornate) brass or even silver collars out of cast metal, which would save a lot of frustration. But I'd like to see some proof for non-princely examples of these collars from the period ~1250-1350 before doing such a thing.

A big part of my problem is that Oakeshott, at least, seemed to find the subject utterly unremarkable, even though he had a prominent example in his collection for many years. Sword in the Age of Chivalry does not seem to mention this at all in the otherwise lengthy section on hilt components, which is strange in the extreme and ought to have warranted at least a paragraph. As Oakeshott is still kind of the authority on this sort of thing, I have no idea where else to turn to for a detailed discussion on grip collars.

Is there anymore information out there that I have missed, or other sources that might help? Thanks for any help you all can provide.



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Oak_Morgarten_Collars.png

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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Jan, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

cut a ring from a tube or look for videos about making rings from coins. that technique should work to make a band without brazing. tough to be precise, though. you could try it with aluminum or even foam or clay to get an idea of the size disc you’d need.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Michael Harley




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jan, 2020 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe the technical term you're looking for is 'ferrule' (a corruption of Latin viriola "small bracelet", under the influence of ferrum "iron") Here is one from right at the end of your period of interest.

© Royal Armouries, object number IX.1115.



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Sword ca.1350-1400 2 .jpeg


Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth - Frank Zappa
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,930

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jan, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a disc of material. Anneal, or keep hot. While slowly rotating on edge, lightly hammer on the edge. As you upset the metal, you will eventually have a ring with a "hub" you then pierce and cut out. Then using a mandrel, final forming/sizing.

This short explanation will work on iron or steel hot, or other soft metals cold.
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Ring-From-a-Coin/

Yes, many use tubing/couplings/pipe and that is very industrial revolution

Cheers
GC
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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks all for the replies on this thread - they have all been helpful and informative. I think I will give brazing one more go, but this time with a thinner brazing rod and a couple other detail changes. Thanks again!
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