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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun 24 Nov, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Modern ways to pierce a riveting hole in Maille?         Reply with quote

I have at least a thousand rings made and flattened now, but I can't seem to find a way to pierce a hole to rivet them together. Everything seems to break without making a single hole? I've tried hand punches, store-bought punches and a hammer, and even tried making a sort of metal shank. Everything falls to the 1mm thick mild steel.

What do you use to pierce the holes?
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most of us use hardened masonry nails. Just grind the point down and you've got a pretty decent drift. The links work-harden when you flatten them so they have to be annealed before drifting the hole. Don't use a punch; a punch removes metal that you need to help secure the rivet.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Most of us use hardened masonry nails. Just grind the point down and you've got a pretty decent drift. The links work-harden when you flatten them so they have to be annealed before drifting the hole. Don't use a punch; a punch removes metal that you need to help secure the rivet.


Ah! I don't know why I didn't think to anneal them again. I normally do it before flattening them as well. I use a punch, but I grind it to somewhat of a point so it doesn't actually remove any material. Thanks a ton!
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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Most of us use hardened masonry nails. Just grind the point down and you've got a pretty decent drift. The links work-harden when you flatten them so they have to be annealed before drifting the hole. Don't use a punch; a punch removes metal that you need to help secure the rivet.


Oh, since you anneal after work hardening, do you need to temper the maille after you finish?
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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Posts: 3,494

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The hardware store might call it a punch but it sounds like you're really using a drift, which is good.

"Temper" is an ambiguous term. What do you mean by it?

A thousand links is an impressive start. Looking forward to seeing your finished work. You can save a lot of effort by making it from alternating rows of solid washers and riveted links.

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
The hardware store might call it a punch but it sounds like you're really using a drift, which is good.

"Temper" is an ambiguous term. What do you mean by it?

A thousand links is an impressive start. Looking forward to seeing your finished work. You can save a lot of effort by making it from alternating rows of solid washers and riveted links.


Hardening the steel. Was thinking just heating it up and quenching it.

I couldn't find any washers that would work for rings. So I bought cut out galvanized rings from a store and I'm just going to remove the zinc with some muriatic acid.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,930

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

if it were me and doing a lot of it, I would find a tabletop arbor press and fashion a tip for it. Such presses are readily available for ammunition loading.

Cheers
GC
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2019 10:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mild steel won't quench-harden. It doesn't have enough carbon.

I get my washers from Seastrom. Prices are good if you request a bulk order of 10,000 or more.

This is the washer I use the most
https://www.seastrom-mfg.com/washerdetails.aspx?productNumber=5702-476-30

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Mild steel won't quench-harden. It doesn't have enough carbon.

I get my washers from Seastrom. Prices are good if you request a bulk order of 10,000 or more.

This is the washer I use the most
https://www.seastrom-mfg.com/washerdetails.aspx?productNumber=5702-476-30


They aren't too thick? That's my main issue with commercial washers, they're much thicker than my 16ga rings. Also, the ones you linked are 5mm, right?

What other ways are there to harden mild steel aside from working it? I feel like annealed rings wouldn't make a decent armor.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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Posts: 3,494

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The dimensions are right there on that page; you know how thick they are. There is no need to harden the metal; pretty much all mail was made of unhardened low-carbon wrought iron. People whose life depended on it wore it for two thousand years.

This might help
https://myArmoury.com/feature_mail.html

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Justice Moore




Location: Virginia, United States
Joined: 17 Nov 2019

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
The dimensions are right there on that page; you know how thick they are. There is no need to harden the metal; pretty much all mail was made of unhardened low-carbon wrought iron. People whose life depended on it wore it for two thousand years.

This might help
https://myArmoury.com/feature_mail.html


After spending more time on the site, and learning how to navigate it, I have learned that it is perfect. I can't believe I got 5k mild steel rings of the perfect size for less than $300. It's a shame I can't just link them together. Looks like I need to make another 4k rings that can be riveted haha.

Sources don't note anything about annealing the rings after flattening them, so I just assumed they stayed work hardened after flattening so they could be tough. I'll just have to thoroughly test my maille before use to make sure it holds up.
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