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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 778

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject: Kris Cutlery Greek Swords         Reply with quote

it has come to my attention that Kris Cutlery has come out with a couple classic Greek swords, a xiphos and a kopis. They're available through Kris directly (on their 'Medieval Arms' page) and at Kult of Athena. Let's take a look at them, first, the xiphos: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...eek+Xiphos
On first glance, I can't say I'm terribly impressed. The blade is a bit too leafy for my personal tastes, and that central fuller is not, as far as I know, historically accurate. I can't tell what the tang looks like, but it doesn't look like a full-profile tang, and is most likely a standard rod-type tang. That would be inaccurate for this type of sword (xiphoi had full-profile tangs). Plus, it looks to be a little overweight for the size. So, I have to say that this one leaves me a bit cold. Now, that's not to say it's probably a perfectly good and functional sword (as KC swords are known to be), it's just lacking in historical accuracy and some aesthetics, for me, at least.

The kopis, on the other hand...
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...reek+Kopis
Now, this one is kind of exciting. On first glance, it looks like it is based on historical examples (one I am aware of in a museum in Corfu, the other in a museum in Athens). These kopides have blades that are fairly long and somewhat slender, as does the KC kopis. From the pictures, I can't tell if the tang is full-profile, as would be the case with most historical versions I'm aware of, but everything else, including the weight, seems spot on. And the birds head grip is a nice and historical touch!

If you're interested in functional ancient Greek-style swords, check them out...

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,345

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Kris Cutlery Greek Swords         Reply with quote

"Greek-style" is about right. Speaking from a strictly historical point of view, the xiphos is a total loss, looks like it was copied from the Windlass piece of junk. The fuller is wrong, the guard is the wrong shape, the tang is obviously wrong, the grip is wrong, the pommel should not be steel. WAY too heavy. The scabbard is a better estimation than some I've seen, just not quite there.

The kopis could be worse, the blade looks good. But it doesn't have the proper tang. I'm leery of that curled end on the guard... The bird-head may be from artwork, have to look that up, it just looks a little extreme to me. (Usually that wrap-around shape is more Spanish than Greek.) The weight is a little high. Again, the scabbard is a little off.

Obviously, if you're just looking for something you like and aren't concerned with accuracy, these may be fine for you. If it's a usable reenactor-grade xiphos you want, this is about the only one on the market that is good right out of the box:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...eek+Xiphos

Oh, and it comes in a short version, too, which is very cute but quite hilt-heavy, so it tends to flip over when worn:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...hos+Dagger

Matthew
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 778

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a couple of the original kopides on which the KC version could be based: http://www.comitatus.net/images/research_greeksword9.jpg

Looks like the birds head is legit. The lack of a full-profile tang, however, is less encouraging.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,345

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay, the outline is good, but are those swords from *Greece*? If they are from Spain, or even from Italy, the question remains. Honestly, I haven't done a lot of deep research on the kopis, only enough to find originals to copy for my own repro. (Which Deepeeka has also copied, and did a good job except they're selling them with a crap leather machete sheath.) So I'll have to dig through some books and see. If there's something in a vase painting like that, cool! And there could be, I'm just reserving judgement.

Matthew
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Joe A




Location: Philadelphia, USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2013

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Matt regarding this Xiphos, the Deepeeka is just fine and as historically accurate as you will find in a production sword.

In fact I've seen some "custom" Xiphos style swords far worse than the Deepeeka version. My only issue with the Deepeeka is quality control, some are good and some look like they were put together by a blind man.

The Kopis is far more interesting as the blade shape seems to be based on an actual artifact and having a birds head is a nice touch. The tang though, this could have been the slender Kopis that every new Greek reenactor bought, if only the tang were correct. Again the Deepeeka is better, but has a wider blade, which is accurate although not to everyone's liking.

Always good to see more Greek swords!
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Joe A




Location: Philadelphia, USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2013

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri 28 Jun, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Okay, the outline is good, but are those swords from *Greece*? If they are from Spain, or even from Italy, the question remains. Honestly, I haven't done a lot of deep research on the kopis, only enough to find originals to copy for my own repro. (Which Deepeeka has also copied, and did a good job except they're selling them with a crap leather machete sheath.) So I'll have to dig through some books and see. If there's something in a vase painting like that, cool! And there could be, I'm just reserving judgement.

Matthew


I've seen many slender Kopis style swords on Greek pottery so it's not inconceivable such swords were available.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,345

PostPosted: Sat 29 Jun, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe A wrote:

I've seen many slender Kopis style swords on Greek pottery so it's not inconceivable such swords were available.


Oh, the blade shape is fine!

Matthew
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Joe A




Location: Philadelphia, USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2013

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 30 Jun, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Joe A wrote:

I've seen many slender Kopis style swords on Greek pottery so it's not inconceivable such swords were available.


Oh, the blade shape is fine!

Matthew


So close, almost a winner! Not hard to get the rest right, but I guess the profit margin wasn't there.
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 778

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manning Imperial makes a copy of the Korfu kopis, apparently the same one the KC sword is based on, but they get the tang right.... it's also a bit more expensive...

http://www.manningimperial.com/catalogue/arms...-kopis/623

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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