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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 7:56 am    Post subject: George R.R. Martin         Reply with quote

Who else is reading the Songs of Fire and Ice series? Am I the only one that both likes and gets seriously hacked off by this series?
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Bruce Wilson




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I've read it all so far - I really got into it too, but the wait for the next bit is killing me!
The story does get a bit wandering at times and the way characters are randomly killed off is a bit annoying, but then that is the way of life, especially during war! Worried

I stumbled across a guy who'd commissioned a custom made Longclaw on one of the forums but I've forgotten which now. From what I remember, it didn't look too bad. I wonder if anyone will try to make Ice? Cool
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Lloyd Clark




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm hooked too, as is a co-worker who is one the "big wigs" in the Fire-Ice card game. He keeps a running track on the Martin website.

Actually, I like the fact that pretty much anyone is fair game for getting killed off. Now, about having the insane cleric that can resurrect them, that I am not too fond of.

From what I can tell, George needs to stop going to conventions and finish writing his books Evil

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh yes, I'm a huge fan of this series. I am getting rather peeved over the extended wait for A Feast for Crows. I also really like how everyone is fair game regardless of their place in the story line. I love these big wandering epic stories with huge plots, subplots, and a million characters. They keep me interested. IMHO Martin's work is far superior to Jordan's Wheel of Time series (yawn, yawn, yawn).

I think we all need to take a road trip and show up at George's place. Big Grin

Another good one is The Swan's War series by Sean Russell. I'm getting tired of waiting for that next one too. Mad

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Bruce Wilson




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, I quite liked the absence of "magic" from this series - but then I also liked the subtle way he began to re-introduce it after there were dragons in the world again.

Martin has a thing about triple-fullered longswords tho - I recall that description cropping up in several places! Razz
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot..............

Rick Barrett made a custom version of Longclaw a while back. That may be what you're refering to. I saw the blade and the pommel when it was in the process. The blade was very neat, and very typical of Rick's work.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Bruce Wilson




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that could well be the one I'm thinking of.
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Nathan Bell





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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Love the series, overall. Totally agree that Mr. Martin needs to put word to page, too, and stop mucking around.

Have to disagree that anybody is fair game for being whacked, though. I will pretty much eat my hat if Tyrion or Jon Snow buys the farm. They may get knocked about a bit, but it's pretty clear these 2 favorite outsiders are in for the long haul. I would actually be quite imnpressed if Martin proves me wrong by killing one of them.

Also have to disagree with Patrick re; Wheel of Time but that's another story.

But with regard to Martin---is there anybody else who really couldn't give a poop about the whole Scythian/Steppe horse nomad element? I find myself almost skimming whenever Danaeris (sp) and her horse-nomad buddies show up.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bruce Wilson wrote:
Yes, I've read it all so far - I really got into it too, but the wait for the next bit is killing me!
The story does get a bit wandering at times and the way characters are randomly killed off is a bit annoying, but then that is the way of life, especially during war! Worried

I stumbled across a guy who'd commissioned a custom made Longclaw on one of the forums but I've forgotten which now. From what I remember, it didn't look too bad. I wonder if anyone will try to make Ice? Cool


It's my understanding that the next one is supposed to finally come out in July. The only problem is that it is only book 4 and the only series I've ever read that had 4 books was the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series by Tad Williams. That one only had 4 because the third book got to bloody big and they split it up. Therefore I expect that there will be at LEAST one more book in this series that we will undoubtedly have to wait years for. I swore I'd never start an unfinished (by the author) series again after reading Memory, Sorrow and Thorn but here I am. Does anyone have any idea how many books there is supposed to be?

I vaguely remember seeing that longclaw but I hadn't read any of the books then so it made no impression. I'll have to go back and look at it. The swords are pretty nebulous in these books so I guess you could probably make them any way that you wanted. I HATE HATE HATE that Tywin had Ice melted down to make those other two swords, although the thought occurs to me that maybe Brandon and Rickon or Athyra and Rickon or Athyra and Rob's unborn son? may end up with the two swords.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lloyd Clark wrote:
I'm hooked too, as is a co-worker who is one the "big wigs" in the Fire-Ice card game. He keeps a running track on the Martin website.

Actually, I like the fact that pretty much anyone is fair game for getting killed off. Now, about having the insane cleric that can resurrect them, that I am not too fond of.

From what I can tell, George needs to stop going to conventions and finish writing his books Evil


I despise this randomly killing off main characters! Well at least the good guys! I know I know unrealistic blah blah blah but darn it I like happy endings and this one won't be as happy with out Ned Stark or Caitlin Stark (the unresurrected version or Rob) That's the one that hacked me off the most. What the heck was he thinking killing Rob off? Darn it! Of course I was equally aggravated when I thought he'd killed off Brandon and Rickon. Ironically I wasn't so upset about Caitlin Stark but I am extremely aggravated that he brought her back to life! If he decides to kill off any more main characters I vote for Sansa. She's such an idiot...

I also agree that he really needs to get to work and finish this series.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Oh yes, I'm a huge fan of this series. I am getting rather peeved over the extended wait for A Feast for Crows. I also really like how everyone is fair game regardless of their place in the story line. I love these big wandering epic stories with huge plots, subplots, and a million characters. They keep me interested. IMHO Martin's work is far superior to Jordan's Wheel of Time series (yawn, yawn, yawn).

I think we all need to take a road trip and show up at George's place. Big Grin

Another good one is The Swan's War series by Sean Russell. I'm getting tired of waiting for that next one too. Mad


The Wheel of Time was good up until about book 5 or was it 6? I think it was The Fires of Heaven where Perrin and the village are making what looks to be their last stand and then suddenly the other villagers from the surrounding areas show up to save the day. I practically cheered. It's been all down hill since then though. I haven't even read the last two and could care less. At this point Jordan seems to be just a hack milking a cash cow. It's a shame really.

I'm all for the road trip. Did you want to bring the pinchers and hot irons or shall I?

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Bell wrote:
Love the series, overall. Totally agree that Mr. Martin needs to put word to page, too, and stop mucking around.

Have to disagree that anybody is fair game for being whacked, though. I will pretty much eat my hat if Tyrion or Jon Snow buys the farm. They may get knocked about a bit, but it's pretty clear these 2 favorite outsiders are in for the long haul. I would actually be quite imnpressed if Martin proves me wrong by killing one of them.

Also have to disagree with Patrick re; Wheel of Time but that's another story.

But with regard to Martin---is there anybody else who really couldn't give a poop about the whole Scythian/Steppe horse nomad element? I find myself almost skimming whenever Danaeris (sp) and her horse-nomad buddies show up.


Yeah I think Snow, Athyra (am I spelling that name righ?) Tyrion, Brandon, Daeaeris, and Jaime are in for the long haul. He seems to have a thing for outcasts, cripples and under dogs. I'm guessing Cersaie, Stanis and Rickon are toast. Don't know what to make of Rickon. I'm guessing Greyjoy isn't done yet either nor the Hound for that matter. I don't know what to make of the Danaeris thing he seems to have settled her down in that city for the moment, maybe he intends for her to confront the Others.

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got caught by this series last summer, read the 3 existing books in succession, and was waiting impatiently for the 4th (which was originally supposed to come out last December) until my enthusiastic fever for it wore off. I liked them a lot, but wished Martin could have paced his narrative faster, and eliminated some of the day to day meandering. Even so, I will buy the 4th one as soon as it comes out.

I agree that Jon Snow and Tyrion will not die any time soon, Add Dany to that list. I can't see Martin killing off that subplot.

I am looking forward to Tyrion's sister coming to a very bad end.
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Bruce Wilson




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We've only (!) had half the series so far - plenty of time for LOTS of interesting and unexpected things to happen yet!

The Daenaerys chapters aren't my favourites and her marching from slaver city to slaver city in the East was getting a little tedious but wait until those dragons have grown a bit and THEN see what happens! The over-aching story would definitely seem to be about the fact that the lords of the Seven Kingdoms have become complacent and self-absorbed - and have completely forgotten what the true threat from North of the Wall actually is... (every good fantasy series has to have it's own "Big Bad", right?).

Even after A Feast for Crows there is still A Dance With Dragons and The Winds of Winter yet to come. Those titles may yet change, of course, but they do give a tantalising glimpse into where the story may lead! Big Grin

To consider the weaponry in this series, what images do you guys have of how some of these swords should look?

Ice was clearly a serious greatsword

Longclaw is quite well described as a rather large bastard sword

Needle intrigues me - what could Arya's delicate little mini-rapier look like?

Any other swords you can remember that are worthy of discussion? There are some interesting apparent anachronisms here in terms of the periods these different weapons would have come from (in historical terms) but then Martin is quite entitled to do what he likes within his own creation - and many of the Valyrian steel swords are positively ancient heirlooms as well as weapons of war. As I recall, Martin also talks somewhere (can't remember the reference) about the differences in the styles of armour across Westeros too - the northmen tend towards a very "Norman" look with simple helms and maille hauberks whereas highly decorated full harness with elaborate helmets seems to be the style further South. I'd love to see some of this series on film someday!
Cool
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Gabriel Stevens




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what I've heard from interviews and the like the original story was supposed to be a trilogy and Martin frequently quotes Tolkien's "The story grew in the making" of something to that extent. But Martin is also a vocal critic of the way that Jordan has let his series get out of hand so the new bar is for six books and I believe Martin said it will be six if he has to kill every single character to do it. I'm really looking forward to the fourth book but I think it is more important for Martin to do it right. From what I've read on his website he had to totally restructure his narrative after having already completed about half of the initial writing which was a huge set back. So I'm perfectly willing for him to take his time as long as the book is at the same quality level as the others. I personally love the fact that everyone is a potential target for the axe. I agree that there are a few that seem to be safe, but that may be only till the conclusion. For my part I remember loving the Wheel of time books up till about five and then I stopped reading them. After reading Martin's stuff I went back and re-read some of the wheel of time books and they just don't seem as strong as they did when I first read them or in comparison to Martin's work. Anyway I doubt that the book will be out in July as there is usually seems to be at least a six month gap between when a manuscript get turned in and the book goes to print for rewrites, editing, etc.
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James Holczer




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As I recall John Snow's sword Longclaw was briefly described as a bastard sword, with the grip being somewhat longer than the single handed variety. Thats about all I can remember about it. The sword descriptions throughout the series have been somewhat vague.
I started reading this thing approximately three years ago and I too am hooked. But the wait between books is getting a bit long.
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David McElrea




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's funny how differently people respond to things.

I think Martin has done a tremendous job with the series, and while I love some of the characters he has killed off, I'm content with his being free to do so. I've never come across any other series that is quite so unpredictable... besides which, the horror of his world is made more palpable by the sudden and violent deaths of those he has made you attached to. Brilliant (in my opinion).

I agree, Jordan started well, but he lost my attention a few books back. Seems like most of it is material recycled from earlier books.

Quote:
Another good one is The Swan's War series by Sean Russell. I'm getting tired of waiting for that next one too.


This is another great series-- reads like poetry. As for "the next one", it came out a couple of months ago. You can buy it from Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-...mp;s=books

David
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Lee O'Hagan




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is this series worth tracking down as it's unfinished,?
the past couple of years the only fantasy stuff i've made a point of keeping up with is the david gemmell novels,
anyone care to throw out a comparable writer to this series,
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Matt G. Meekma




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Haven't read any of these books but the first thing that came to mind for me when they said that it seems no one is safe from the axe, was a comparison to David Gemmel. He never seems to have a problem killing off a main character right in the middle of a book. Not that it matters, Cuz he can always just right a prequel later and bring them back. (God Bless him)
Beer is God's way of saying He wants Us to be Happy. - Ben Franklin
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Lloyd Clark




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mattie, if you want to borrow them, let me know.

They are a really good read (except for the Dany part - sorry, just never liked that storyline).

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
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