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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Suggest me a wooden martial implement to carve         Reply with quote

I'm after any carvable wood martial implements or weapons of war you know of. I am looking to carve a new 'stick' for myself and thought I would draw from either something historical or even well known movie/hollywood item. What do folks suggest? Gandalfs staff was one suggestion I had from a friend!(project for another time maybe). Any historical pics of cudgels, shillelaghs etc appreciated.
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Gregg Sobocinski




Location: Michigan
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Reading list: 12 books

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PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After holding a Native American (Iroquois or Eastern Great Lakes tribes) ball end warclub, I immediately wondered how it would work if it was stretched to walking stick length. I particularly like the curved ones. It would take a lot of work to make a good one, though.
Examples can be seen here:
https://www.facebook.com/woodlandwarclubs/

If you want images of historical pieces, let me know, since I should have a few nice ones bookmarked.
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Posts: 492

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 4:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gregg Sobocinski wrote:
After holding a Native American (Iroquois or Eastern Great Lakes tribes) ball end warclub, I immediately wondered how it would work if it was stretched to walking stick length. I particularly like the curved ones. It would take a lot of work to make a good one, though.
Examples can be seen here:
https://www.facebook.com/woodlandwarclubs/

If you want images of historical pieces, let me know, since I should have a few nice ones bookmarked.


It would be much like an blackthorn Shillelagh

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Posts: 492

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 4:10 am    Post subject: Challenging project         Reply with quote

Some really challenging projects would be weapons from the Gothic period. Some of the maces would be an artistic challenge especially if you used different woods and used just stains and varnish

Another way to go would be some of the Indian weapons (country not Native American).

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Ron Reimer




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Aug 2010

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about Polynesian/Maori/Australian weapons, these are cultures that had no or limited access to metal weapons and are frequently carved and highly decorated while remaining effective weapons.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gregg thanks for the link, very interesting, like types of knobkerries from South Africa. Adding it to the choices.

David, any pictures of what you refer to?
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,363

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 6:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a couple nice Bronze Age clubs shown on this page, scroll down a bit:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle

I've made those myself, though I used oak and yew rather than ash and sloe.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2025467430881537&set=pb.100002548987312.-2207520000.1552312417.&type=3&theater

Have fun!

Matthew
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P Sampson




Location: Australia
Joined: 17 Feb 2019

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Noting that you are in Australia,a lot of states have prohibition laws for a lot of weapons.Some here are suggesting a mace type of club,which could land you in prison.

Makes it a bit difficult to suggest,but as mentioned some of the Islander/Maori stuff would be possible.Or a good sized fighting boomerang.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar, 2019 3:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

P Sampson, I just looked into it and you are correct. My state will allow swords, spears, poleaxes, hand-axes, any knife, (which I already knew as I own them).....but bans maces and blunt items designed for striking with the head. : WTF?!

I assume the authorities must feel they are so much more dangerous than a sword, perhaps able to possess the weilders mind and lead him to criminal acts.

The logic of left-wing governments never fails to make me feel I am in a dystopian 1970's novel....

Oh well , I will stick to making walking sticks and owning safe items like poleaxes, zweihanders and falchions Laughing Out Loud
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am sorry I miss read what you were doing....
I thought you were carving art pieces.

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately it doesnt matter if its wall art or defending from zombies, its a no go here for maces it seems. Only "ceremonial' implements( I assume band leaders batons and maces) can be owned without a martial arts business licence. Still shaking my head. All the lives saved from 'random subway flanged mace attacks' by this legislation, thank heavens for liberals ensuring only swords and knives can make it into the publics hands WTF?! Laughing Out Loud
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P Sampson




Location: Australia
Joined: 17 Feb 2019

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl G wrote:
Unfortunately it doesnt matter if its wall art or defending from zombies, its a no go here for maces it seems. Only "ceremonial' implements( I assume band leaders batons and maces) can be owned without a martial arts business licence. Still shaking my head. All the lives saved from 'random subway flanged mace attacks' by this legislation, thank heavens for liberals ensuring only swords and knives can make it into the publics hands WTF?! Laughing Out Loud


Yes, I find myself shaking my head at times as well.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aplogies for mentioning politics as well.
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 3:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The federal government and some states define a mace as "a club or staff fitted with a flanged or spiked head" (Queensland doesn't appear to have this definition in legislation). Impact weapons are not banned - spiked/flanged (mace) and hinged (flail, nunchuks) and chain (manrikigusari etc.) impact weapons are banned.

The are plenty of clubs that are clearly not maces. For some carving fun, I suggest:

- Massim sword club: https://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/explore/collection/work/1867/

- Maori taiaha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiaha

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun 17 Mar, 2019 2:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
The federal government and some states define a mace as "a club or staff fitted with a flanged or spiked head" (Queensland doesn't appear to have this definition in legislation).

The are plenty of clubs that are clearly not maces. For some carving fun, I suggest:



As you said, depending on state.

QLD- Category M weapon requiring licence with martial arts endorsement

(t) a mace or any similar article (other than a ceremonial mace made for and used solely as a symbol of authority on ceremonial occasions);

The definition of' 'any similar article' is a little too broad for me to be comfortable testing in front of a magistrate.
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P Sampson




Location: Australia
Joined: 17 Feb 2019

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl G wrote:
Timo Nieminen wrote:
The federal government and some states define a mace as "a club or staff fitted with a flanged or spiked head" (Queensland doesn't appear to have this definition in legislation).

The are plenty of clubs that are clearly not maces. For some carving fun, I suggest:



As you said, depending on state.

QLD- Category M weapon requiring licence with martial arts endorsement

(t) a mace or any similar article (other than a ceremonial mace made for and used solely as a symbol of authority on ceremonial occasions);

The definition of' 'any similar article' is a little too broad for me to be comfortable testing in front of a magistrate.


The main issue would be the interpretation of the law regarding the item,by the officer involved.If one was clearly acting aggressively in possession of the item,or was a member of a known criminal gang,or under investigation for a criminal activity,then one would or could expect even a baseball bat to be considered a weapon and be subsequently charged.As to a carved object with a club like head,in the possession of a law abiding non-confrontational collector of weapons and/or militaria,then the interpretation of what would be considered a mace could be different as to that of an exact copy in possession of a drug crazed maniac.

Of course not having an item that could be assessed as a prohibited weapon is always a better option than having one that could be.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Mon 18 Mar, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

P Sampson wrote:


The main issue would be the interpretation of the law regarding the item,by the officer involved.If one was clearly acting aggressively in possession of the item,or was a member of a known criminal gang,or under investigation for a criminal activity,


To grey an area especially if you wanted to share the work with others. There are too many ways these days for someone taking it the wrong way. If something is reported by a concerned member of the public, a fellow club member, ex-girlfriend, or disgruntled flatmate etc the police then take a strong interest.
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Mar, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl G wrote:
Timo Nieminen wrote:
The federal government and some states define a mace as "a club or staff fitted with a flanged or spiked head" (Queensland doesn't appear to have this definition in legislation).

The are plenty of clubs that are clearly not maces. For some carving fun, I suggest:



As you said, depending on state.

QLD- Category M weapon requiring licence with martial arts endorsement

(t) a mace or any similar article (other than a ceremonial mace made for and used solely as a symbol of authority on ceremonial occasions);

The definition of' 'any similar article' is a little too broad for me to be comfortable testing in front of a magistrate.


That kind of law is common across Australia, to ban/restrict maces (except ceremonial maces). The difference between QLD and at least some of the other states is that they explicitly define "mace" as "a club or staff fitted with a flanged or spiked head".

Since QLD legislation doesn't define what a mace is, the answer to "what is a mace in Queensland" might lie in case law (pepper spray will complicate the search a bit). You don't need to be the one who tests the law if it's been tested before.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Karl G




Location: Australia
Joined: 25 Apr 2016

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu 21 Mar, 2019 3:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks but not interested in going to court at all. Case law does not always win cases, or court cases would be a lot shorter than they are. If you want to own or post pictures of your own maces to prove a point by all means feel free. Personally as a gun and Cat M( crossbow) owner I'm not remotely interested in testing anything with the law as under our draconian weapons laws I would stand to lose significant collections if it went wrong.
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