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Keith Kipferl




Location: Elmira, NY
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Angus Trim's shop burgled         Reply with quote

I didn't see this posted here so I thought I should let you folks know.
Gus had his shop burgled last night and lost several swords.
You can get the details at this SFI thread
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WTF?!

What's wrong with people?

Angus, I most sincerely hope these are recovered and the perp brought to justice.

I'll keep my eyes open in my usual haunts... if I see anything, we'll all know about it.

-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________

Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
Joined: 26 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Things were a little hectic last nite, must have spent nearly an hour with the three officers that showed up {like within 2 minutes of my dialing 911}.

Being a fella that respects law enforcement types, I had reported to the 911 operator that I had confronted the burglar {very briefly} with 9mm in hand, and that it would be on the workbench, unloaded when an officer showed up. From the time I hung up, I had just enough time to drop the magazine, eject the round, and set the pistol on the bench........

Its kinda funny. In the excitement of the moment, I deleted to leave the slide back. When the one officer discovered it, he pulled out his flashlite, and spent about a minute looking at it, without touching it....*g*

As I'm writing this, the doorknob is being replaced, and a deadbolt being installed. That's one thing that might have prevent this, if I'd already had a deadbolt on the shop.....

No shots fired, no violence or threats......just some property theft, roughly $6000 worth...........

Another funny thing was that the senior officer mentioned as they were getting ready to leave, he was surprised I hadn't punched a couple rounds thru the perps windshield. Interesting how far a rep for insanity goes.........

I mentioned that I really had enough problems without talking to a prosecutor about reckless endangerment at the minimum.............theft and the loss of most of a day's work is a pain, but better than what could have happened if I'd have released a round or two......

Would appreciate it if folks would keep an eye out for some of the stolen stuff......

Auld Dawg.

swords are fun
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Nate C.




Location: Palo Alto, CA
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Despicable Fiend Mad Evil . May he meet his fate (or maker) in an appropriate way!
Nate C.

Sapere Aude
"If you are going to kill the man, at least give him a decent salute." - A. Blansitt

If they ever come up with a Swashbuckling School, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, then Jumping Off Something. --Jack Handy
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Thomas McDonald
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Location: New Hampshire
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very sorry to hear about this, Gus !

I commend you on keeping a level head !

Best wishes, Mac

'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
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G. Scott H.




Location: Arizona, USA
Joined: 22 Feb 2005

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nate C. wrote:
Despicable Fiend Mad Evil . May he meet his fate (or maker) in an appropriate way!

Maybe we'll get lucky, and the perp will cut himself on one of the blades and bleed out! No, seriously, I don't wish such a thing on the guy, but if it were to happen it would be a consequence of his own actions, and I certainly wouldn't shed a tear. Mad Angus did the right thing in deciding not to shoot. If the guy had tried to run him over, or harm him in some other way, Gus would have been perfectly justified in using deadly force. There's a very good chance that the thief will be caught, and he will have to answer for his crime in an appropriate manner. Let's all hope for the best.
The main thing is that Gus is in one piece. Also, as far as I know, he didn't lose any of his expensive sword making equipment (belt grinders, etc.), so I assume he'll be back in production without too much delay. Cool Happy

Good luck and best wishes, Gus. Happy
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That just blows... For me the worst thought begind getting my swords stolen is the thought that the perps won't even appreciate what they have stolen. Its one thing to steal a TV, but art is so much more.

Side thought: I was under the impression that leathal force was permitable when it stops a felony. (i.e. rape, murder, ext) But isn't $6k worth of theft over the $2k limit? Dosent that bump it up to a class A felony? Just wondering... Maybe Patrick has some insight? It may have been a cop thing, I don't quite remember where I heard it.

edit: This was just a passing thought, and dosen't imply feelings either way. I personally feel nothing is worth a life, but I was remembering something I had heard once.

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Last edited by Alex Oster on Thu 31 Mar, 2005 3:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Benjamin McCracken





Joined: 26 Feb 2004

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex,
It really depends on the state. I know that in Michigan you can use lethal force to stop a fleeing felon, but you should yell something like "stop you felon or I'll shoot." Police can really only use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon if the person is a danger to the officer or someone else. This is because of the fourth Amendment, the case is Tennessee v Gardner (I believe). It applies to police officers but does not apply to citizens because citizens are not acting under the color of state law.

You can also shoot if you have a reasonable belief that you are in danger of death or imminent severe bodily harm. I think Gus did the right thing. In fact I really commend him on showing restraint in a situation where most people would have shot first and asked questions later.

Disclaimer: This should not be interpreted as legal advice or counsel.


Ben

"Your sword is your shield!"
Christian Henry Tobler
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin McCracken wrote:
You can also shoot if you have a reasonable belief that you are in danger of death or imminent severe bodily harm. I think Gus did the right thing. In fact I really commend him on showing restraint in a situation where most people would have shot first and asked questions later. "Ben


I agree whole heartedly. I just hope that his work is tracked down. I am also surprised that the officers were so agreable. The police in my area would have been less than courteous.

Best wishes-

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Oster wrote:
That just blows... For me the worst thought begind getting my swords stolen is the thought that the perps won't even appreciate what they have stolen. Its one thing to steal a TV, but art is so much more.

Side thought: I was under the impression that leathal force was permitable when it stops a felony. (i.e. rape, murder, ext) But isn't $6k worth of theft over the $2k limit? Dosent that bump it up to a class A felony? Just wondering... Maybe Patrick has some insight? It may have been a cop thing, I don't quite remember where I heard it.

edit: This was just a passing thought, and dosen't imply feelings either way. I personally feel nothing is worth a life, but I was remembering something I had heard once.


There are felonys and then there are felonys.

Theft, regardless of the monetary amount, is a non-person felony. In other words, there's no danger to personal welfare in the commision of the crime. Shooting the individual would have been an extremely bad idea.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
Joined: 26 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Alex Oster wrote:
That just blows... For me the worst thought begind getting my swords stolen is the thought that the perps won't even appreciate what they have stolen. Its one thing to steal a TV, but art is so much more.

Side thought: I was under the impression that leathal force was permitable when it stops a felony. (i.e. rape, murder, ext) But isn't $6k worth of theft over the $2k limit? Dosent that bump it up to a class A felony? Just wondering... Maybe Patrick has some insight? It may have been a cop thing, I don't quite remember where I heard it.

edit: This was just a passing thought, and dosen't imply feelings either way. I personally feel nothing is worth a life, but I was remembering something I had heard once.


There are felonys and then there are felonys.

Theft, regardless of the monetary amount, is a non-person felony. In other words, there's no danger to personal welfare in the commision of the crime. Shooting the individual would have been an extremely bad idea.


Since there was no threat of violence, any discharge would have been a bad idea. The next day {this morning} I had more than one person suggest I should have shot one of the tires out. I might be nuts, but I'm not a good liar, and from the moment I realized he just wanted to high tail it, the CZ was just extra weight. At this point of my life, I don't feel like dealing with the consequences

swords are fun
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
from the moment I realized he just wanted to high tail it, the CZ was just extra weight.


Thats so true. I have a pistol I used take hiking, and when I was in the bad areas of town, but I have been rethinking this now that I am older.Where I see it as an item of last resort, I still feel nothing is worth taking a life except my own If they want my wallet, heck knock yourself out. I'll get another.

Kudos for playing it cool. and I sent you a pm via sfi.

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
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M. Taylor




Location: Chesterland, Ohio
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 128

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gus,

I'm truly sorry for your loss, but very grateful that you weren't hurt. My wife was broken into three times in her pre-me days, so (through her) I can understand the sense of loss and outrage you're probably feeling. I hope the cops nail the pig that did that to you. Mad

Someday, funds willing, I do hope to own one of your fine swords.

"Only people not able to grow tall from their own efforts and achievements seek to subdue their fellow man."
"Only people not being able to find comfort in their own mind seek to silence others. " - Per Bylund
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Scott H.




Location: Illinois
Joined: 10 May 2004

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: burglary         Reply with quote

Gus-
Jeez man, that sucks. Sad I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry for the emotional blow as well. I think you showed great courage and level headedness, and should be commended.

I sure hope justice is served and this jerk gets his upcomance! Mad

Hope today is a better day.

Take care,
Scott
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David Quivey




Location: Davis, California
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Reading list: 21 books

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2005 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stealing is not cool.
Stealing weapons is doubly not cool.
Stealing weapons from people who have friends with weapons is not the smartest idea either. God help him, 'cos no one here will.

Angus - this is terrible. I cannot comprehend the minds of such people, but perhaps that is a good thing. I am eerily reminded of a similar episode that happened in my neck of the woods. Someone broke into our gun range, of which I've been a member for ten years, and stole three brand new left handed Anschuzt competition rifles. He still hasn't been apprehended.

I hope your man will soon find himself behind bars.
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