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Sam Arwas




Location: Australia
Joined: 02 Dec 2015

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: What fencing treatises/manuals predate 1.33?         Reply with quote

1.33 is well known as the oldest known European fencing treatise. I've heard the are older Mamluk and Subcontinental sources. What form do these take and where can I find information on them?
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,

My impression of these older sources is that they're often more general books on war that have a few specifics on a few kinds of combat, but hardly the technical plays found in MS I.33, Fiore, Ringeck/Von Danzig, etc. I think they're somewhat akin to the material produced by Duarte I of Portugal, if you own or have read a copy of The Art of Riding in Every Saddle or the earlier version The Royal Book of Jousting, Horsemanship, and Knightly Combat: A Translation Into English of King Dom Duarte's 1438 Treatise. In other words, they give some insights, but you would still need much more information to fill in the gaps.

Please keep in mind these are just my impressions from hearsay; it's possible I'm incorrect.
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Sam Arwas




Location: Australia
Joined: 02 Dec 2015

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Sam,

My impression of these older sources is that they're often more general books on war that have a few specifics on a few kinds of combat, but hardly the technical plays found in MS I.33, Fiore, Ringeck/Von Danzig, etc. I think they're somewhat akin to the material produced by Duarte I of Portugal, if you own or have read a copy of The Art of Riding in Every Saddle or the earlier version The Royal Book of Jousting, Horsemanship, and Knightly Combat: A Translation Into English of King Dom Duarte's 1438 Treatise. In other words, they give some insights, but you would still need much more information to fill in the gaps.

Please keep in mind these are just my impressions from hearsay; it's possible I'm incorrect.
Thanks for that. I had the impression that they didn't contain the detailed plays of the European sources.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 612

PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have leafed through it without reading much of it but I believe some of the treatises he worked with predate RA MS I.33:

Persian Archery and Swordmanship: Historical Martial Arts of Iran
Book by Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani
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