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Aaron D

Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Joined: 13 Aug 2017

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri 17 Aug, 2018 3:31 am    Post subject: Recommended reading for Learning I.33         Reply with quote

I've been lurking here for about a year or so now and I just started practicing HEMA earlier this year. I was wondering what books people recommend for learning sword and buckler in the style of I.33. I've seen the 4 books in the books section here and wanted to know if anyone had any particular advice on which would be most beneficial to a relative beginner. Thank you in advance!
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J. Nicolaysen

Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 795

PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not a great resource for this since I don't actively study I.33 primarily due to a lack of training partner. But I do have some of the books I think you refer to. (I couldn't find the part in the Books section you mention). So here is my ranking.

First, I think Jeffrey Forgeng's two editions of the facsimiles are probably the best for someone who already has a little experience with body mechanics and sword handling and general dexterity so they can really get to closest to the source material and make their own decisions and judgments of what's going on. But I only have the first edition so I cannot truly compare the two editions.

2nd Edition app $50

First edition app $200+

Second I think Herbert Schmidt's Sword Fighting Vol II An Introduction to the Single Handed Sword and Buckler is very well done for the beginner who wants clear training methodology and good pictures to model from. But it is Mr. Schmidt's interpretation and it brings in later sword and buckler material from other masters such as Paulus Kal.

Third I think Paul Wagner and Steven Hand's Shield-Armouries/dp/1891448439/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534732075&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=steven+wagner+and+paul+hand" target="_blank" class="postlink">Medieval Sword and Shield is a little outdated at this point, but worth looking at a different interpretation once fundamentals have been learnt. They also brought out an appendix of some sort almost immediately after publication and it can be found in one of the old Spatha journals.

Fourth I don't own so cannot truly judge or rank Andrew Kenner's I33 Fencing in the Style of the Walpurgis Manuscript

Fifth is the gorgeous, extravagant, purely awesome Extraordinary Edition which really shouldn't be mentioned as a training book, but more as an heirloom or study book. Price is 750 GBP for the "regular" edition and unlisted for the premium edition. Just appreciate that it's been made for the rich and the Universities of the world, I guess.

Another resource is the great study of Roland Warzecha aka Dimicator who has a FB page under that name and a Patreon account which is not limited to his long study of I33. He posts a lot of great videos and researches and is certainly worth considering supporting.

Last there's also the Wiktenaur page which has some scans of the actual manuscript, but not much else. Can be helpful too.

I will be very interested to hear from other people what they have found helpful for I.33 study.
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Michael Beeching

Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 270

PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wagner & Hand's manual is not terrible, but it is formatted such that it assumes you have a facsimile of I.33 itself, which you probably don't. Contrast this to say, one of Tobler's manuals, which will contain both a translation of the original material as well as commentary, it's a bit lacking.

That said, if you do get Wagner & Hand's manual, be prepared to get a copy of the proper I.33 manual as well. Spending some time with Wiktenauer and possibly GIMP to prepare a reference document would be worth your time.
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Kel Rekuta

Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 616

PostPosted: Sat 25 Aug, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hand and Wagner's book was originally sold as a set with the first Forgeng edition. Within a year or two, Stephen Hand published an errata sheet and mentioned several updated interpretations.

Innumerable arguments have fallen out of their interpretation from, what sixteen years ago? There was a very different interp from a French fencer Frank Cinato in 2010? Even through the language barrier, I got a fairly interesting view of a very combative take on the manuscript. Cool guy.
(outdated page on the AEMMA website

David Rawlings has some videos of his take on S&B, as does Roland Warscheca. (Dimicator) Vastly different interpretations.... ;-) Both of these gentlemen put out training videos at some point in the past

Since I saw early text translations from Jeff in 2000, I have been interested in this material. As far as I am concerned there is no real consensus between a rather large number of people using the translation, attempting their own ( a foolish waste of time, Forgeng is a master of medieval language translation, trained at one of the best medieval institutes in the world) or simply bashing their way through the plates, untranslated. (Equally unproductive efforts)

Buy the second edition if you need a book. Print out the plates from the internet if you don't need the book. Read a lot of whatever discussion forum you like. (NOT Reddit)
If you have the coin, look at the available videos and how they are reviewed. Swordplay is hard to learn from a book, having an instructor give you clues is much more effective.

Anyway.... have a great weekend and Good Luck!
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