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J. Kemp




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 01 Apr 2016

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 6:24 am    Post subject: Information on helmets at Chateau de Beynac, France         Reply with quote

Hi all,
So, a few years ago on a trip to France, I visited the Chateau de Beynac and photographed two helmets mounted to the wall in the lowers levels of the castle. The helmets are meant to be those of the Baron Adhemar de Beynac and used in the 3rd crusade in 1190, according to the information board next to the piece. I have attached pictures, and my question is whether anyone has seen these helmets before and knows whether they are originals or reconstructions? I would believe them to be reconstructions due to the fact there are two of them and they were mounted to a wall and left to rust, and the rust does not seem as great as would be on a crusade era helmet, aside from the general good condition of the helmets and the fact that the swords surrounding them are not originals.
If anyone can tell due to past knowledge or simply by looking at them whether they are reconstructions, then that would be great. I'm interested to know as if they are originals then I'll consider making a reconstruction following a current oakeshott type 17 project.
Finally, apologies for the bad photography and I understand if no one can make anything out, especially after I have had to lower the image resolution to fit into the attachment.

Thanks again,
J



 Attachment: 124.1 KB
Forward view [ Download ]

 Attachment: 108.67 KB
View of rack including info board [ Download ]

 Attachment: 97.6 KB
Upper side view [ Download ]

 Attachment: 61.57 KB
Inner view to show construction (blurry) [ Download ]

 Attachment: 123.96 KB
Final view to show riveting on cap [ Download ]
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know, J. WTF?! Those look awfully 'crisp' to be original Crusader-era helms. Question .......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Likes: 23 pages

Posts: 449

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can't say I'm in any way knowledgeable about this, but everything about this 'exposition' seems like very obvious 'histo(e)rish' cheaply put together prop for tourists.

The awkwardly put together swords with some very weird blade/guard/pommel combinations.

The entirely ferrous 'shields' (they are rusting) with a cross sheet nailed to the center. WTF?!

"Crossbows" with metal prods shaped as if they were somehow spanned despite the fact that they have no strings. A

And so on.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,306

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, those all look like fakes, to me. Well, be fair--"modern replicas", perhaps! The metal shields and that excuse for an "axe" are pretty blatant. Also, the inside of the helm looks like it was shiny metal (like modern sheet), rather than a forge-worked finish. All with active rust, of course.

Matthew
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J. Kemp




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 01 Apr 2016

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks everyone. I didn't think they could have been originals, and as you all agree then I'll go with that.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr, 2018 1:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The plates and segments on the helmet look like modern industrially-rolled steel, and the cuts are far too straight as well. I have a hard time imagining a helmet looking like these if they weren't made with modern power tools.
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