Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > I have questions about the early days of the glaive 13-14C Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,436

PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: I have questions about the early days of the glaive 13-14C         Reply with quote

essentially im looking for a glaive for mid-late 14th century footsoldier impression (and one blunted for fighting) and im trying to get some idea opf its history and evolution to give me an idea of what features to look out for if i were to come across a reproduction glaive
(im looking for a cut and thrust polearm and that includes the voulge but i also want to get an idea about the glaive)

I know some form of 'knife on a stick' glaive is in the macejowski bible but manuscriptminiatures examples of glaives arnt always that easily defined especially their 14th century manuscripts. so i thought id get the opinion of someone whose maybe looked at this a bit more. especially because i know medieval art can be a bit slippery with some details.


also while im here and as part of the question, i have noticed https://static.webshopapp.com/shops/032318/files/032517648/600x600x2/battle-ready-glaive.jpg this glaivelike thing, and idly wondering if it would be historical for that 14th century timeframe, or historical at all for the period
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Fisher Lobdell




Location: Kansas city
Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Reading list: 14 books

Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

White well arms has a couple nice ones for the time frame. This basic form seems to be the standard(though not always with the round guard), though there is an other group which has a blade that has some forward leaning concave falchion looking scalloped blades and little hooks on the back (or front), and other configurations (including Bills).


And as for the Knife on a stick, I believe they were a simple Glaive type that WAS used historically. (just a simple version of the one I linked) Big Grin


http://www.whitewellarms.com/page5.htm

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3923/10743/

1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evedence of
Absence. Ewart Oakeshotte.
View user's profile Send private message
William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,436

PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fisher Lobdell wrote:
White well arms has a couple nice ones for the time frame. This basic form seems to be the standard(though not always with the round guard), though there is an other group which has a blade that has some forward leaning concave falchion looking scalloped blades and little hooks on the back (or front), and other configurations (including Bills).


And as for the Knife on a stick, I believe they were a simple Glaive type that WAS used historically. (just a simple version of the one I linked) Big Grin


http://www.whitewellarms.com/page5.htm

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3923/10743/


ok so i looked at the website and im still unsure

because what im asking for is not only products although that helps, but shapes,
like hooks and flukes and forks, and different blade shapes and lengths...when the rondel is introduced etc
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A nice Glaive and a Lochaber Axe are high on my bucket-list of things I want. There are just so few choices out there, aside from having them custom made. I may try to make my own from mild steel, as they will be just for display. Happy ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 31 pages

Posts: 679

PostPosted: Sun 11 Feb, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as roundel goes, there is a depiction of both a glaive and a vouge each with roundel from the Caeser tapestry, Historicshes Museum Bern, ca 1470. Hooks seem to be a feature of glaives earlier and throughout the 16th century, at least in artwork.

From the excellent book Hafted Weapons in Medieval and Renaissance Europe by John Waldeman, "There is documentation that glaives were in use in Italy shortly after 1300. A prayer book of approximately 1380 in the library of Parma, Ms Pal. 56, shows three scenes...in which long-shafted glaives are being carried by foot-soldiers.......(109)


The sketch in the book (fig 90a) look very similar to the later 15th century forms with a kind of hook on the back side(fig 90b, both page 110). The overall form of the glaive doesn't seem to change much from 1300 to late 1500s and then it becomes very ornate, gilded, etc, like many other polearms. They seem to be quite ceremonial and elaborate from that time on.

The book does describe the difficulty of the word Glaive and says "the word, in one spelling or another, is found in the English language as early as 1297, but then the word was used interchangeably for a lance or sword." (108). Also discusses the conflation/confusion between glaive, bill, fouchard, etc. for terminology.

The Marshall Historical and the White Well Arms examples linked earlier are all socketed polearms. I would trust White Wells' research that socketed examples of glaives exist but I could not find anything online in the Met Museum or the Wallace Collection databases myself. But many polearms started as sockets or wrap-around haft construction and later went to tangs, so this could be another example of that.

Almost all these are too late and too ornate to be of any use. But I tried to search a bit. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection#!?q=glaive&perPage=100&sortBy=Relevance&sortOrder=asc&offset=0&pageSize=0
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 11 Feb, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a couple of other images from manuscripts around the time you were looking for:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4360/9252/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4056/11775/

You'll note that both of these images feature glaives with fairly long heads, and the first image at least one of the glaives has the metallic piece protruding from the back.

The main problem with the replica you've shown seems to be that the head is much smaller than 14th century glaives.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > I have questions about the early days of the glaive 13-14C
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum