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Filipe Prestes




Location: Brasil
Joined: 08 Apr 2017

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Plate neck protection during 14th ce         Reply with quote

Hello everybody, I'm new to this forum, and I'm an HEMA and HMB figther.
But the hmb autenticity comitee is pissing everyone for the autenticity of neck protection (plate mandatory, but sometime not compatible with the period)

I realy need some help to find what kind of neck protection they used (in northen italy) during de 14th century.
The main reason it's because the "round" rondel on the neck is forbidden, and the examples they are using are from mid to late 15th CE.


I've looked trough the forum, but i dind't find any topic about and google isn't helping.

So, i've had to ask for specialists.


Thanks in advance and forgive any spelling error, please
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Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In Iberia we had some nice rigid gorgets, 1340-1360. (Puerta Preciosa, Pamplona cathedral) Wink

Achieving both high "accuracy" and safety will be always hard, as there are better protections than the "transitional" style (I don' t know why it has such popularity). But of course, I am biased, as a reenactor I work to be accurate, and as HEMA trainer, I want to be safe, so I tend to see the "medieval" combat as having contradictory requirements and little in common with both of my hobbys.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Plate neck protection during 14th ce         Reply with quote

Filipe Prestes wrote:
I realy need some help to find what kind of neck protection they used (in northen italy) during de 14th century.


Mail standards -"gorgieretti", and bascinets with mail aventails - "bacinetto con gorgiera" seem most common.

https://books.google.at/books?id=IPQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA315&lpg=PA315&dq=Codice+degli+stipendiari+della+repubblica+di+Firenze+Dall%27Arch.&source=bl&ots=ICGCg4ABvA&sig=SYuQ06tA0uvZwNBu0prL3rVb0Sc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IiAXUcJzx77aBYPOgdgB&sqi=2&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Codice%20degli%20stipendiari%20della%20repubblica%20di%20Firenze%20Dall'Arch.&f=false

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Jason O C





Joined: 20 Oct 2012

Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sun 12 Nov, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could you not hide a solid neck defence under the aventail of your bassinet?

Jason
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,197

PostPosted: Sun 12 Nov, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mail collars ARE rigid. They were either made from weaves dense enough to prevent the mail from flexing or they were reinforced with leather thongs, which were pulled tight to create the required rigidity.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Filipe Prestes




Location: Brasil
Joined: 08 Apr 2017

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Plate neck protection during 14th ce         Reply with quote

:
Mart Shearer wrote:
Filipe Prestes wrote:
I realy need some help to find what kind of neck protection they used (in northen italy) during de 14th century.


Mail standards -"gorgieretti", and bascinets with mail aventails - "bacinetto con gorgiera" seem most common.

https://books.google.at/books?id=IPQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA315&lpg=PA315&dq=Codice+degli+stipendiari+della+repubblica+di+Firenze+Dall%27Arch.&source=bl&ots=ICGCg4ABvA&sig=SYuQ06tA0uvZwNBu0prL3rVb0Sc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IiAXUcJzx77aBYPOgdgB&sqi=2&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Codice%20degli%20stipendiari%20della%20repubblica%20di%20Firenze%20Dall'Arch.&f=false



Yeah, but the rules says that you must bem protected by "plate" armor , for safety reasons
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Filipe Prestes




Location: Brasil
Joined: 08 Apr 2017

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason O C wrote:
Could you not hide a solid neck defence under the aventail of your bassinet?

Jason




That's what everybody does, but they, hell knows why, want to end with this

Everybody know that is not an 100% historical accurate sport, but they are trying too hard in making super-duper historical (wich can, AND WILL, lead to increase in injures and wounds.)
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Filipe Prestes




Location: Brasil
Joined: 08 Apr 2017

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Iagoba Ferreira wrote:
In Iberia we had some nice rigid gorgets, 1340-1360. (Puerta Preciosa, Pamplona cathedral) Wink

Achieving both high "accuracy" and safety will be always hard, as there are better protections than the "transitional" style (I don' t know why it has such popularity). But of course, I am biased, as a reenactor I work to be accurate, and as HEMA trainer, I want to be safe, so I tend to see the "medieval" combat as having contradictory requirements and little in common with both of my hobbys.




Thanks for the reference !!!!! Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

The transitional period is the most used, by far, because the following:

Cheaper
Easyer (don't know the spelling) to make and mantain
Lighter
Offer better mobility and is more flexible


the biggest flaw in this type of armor is the fabric being cut, but since HMB weapons are dull, we don have this problem
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