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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: A question on nasal helms...         Reply with quote

When did nasal helms officially go completely out of favor? I realize that along with more advanced armor (plate) replacing mail, helmets began to get a lot more complex in construction. But, would a nasal helm still be worn in later Medieval times, even if it's relegated to being an antique in those days? Maybe by a poorer person who couldn't afford to be better armored, or maybe out of sheer reverence to the original owner...as in a passed down heirloom? I wouldn't see a helmet as being any different from a family sword, passed on from generation to generation. I guess what I'm really asking is: Is there any evidence of someone wearing an 'antique' nasal helm in more 'modern' Medieval times? Thanks......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You find nasals on bascinets in the first couple of decades of the 14th century, as well as on Italian barbutes in the late 14th, though the classical conical or domed helmet with nasal peters out in the 13th century.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Travis McLeod





Joined: 15 Sep 2017

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are we talking strictly Euro, or are you interested in Eastern nasal helms as well? Nasal guards show up on quite a few late Medieval Eastern helms like this Ottoman helm: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/04.3.456a/ or even all the way into the 18th century like this Mughal helm: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24932

Also, as far as helms getting passed down as heirlooms, I can't imagine that would happen for more than a couple generations. If the helm is seeing use, there's a good chance it would sustain damage or get replaced at some point. The helms worn by low ranking infantry and such tended to be pretty affordable.
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was mainly talking about Euro helms, and yes, I see your point about the 'inherited' helm thing. They would probably see their share of abuse if they were fought in much at all. I just think about stuff like that....kinda like the two-handed Claymore being used as late as the '45. I'll bet that was a sight. Surprised ......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Relating to what Mart says, the conical nasal helmets, which were often sans-nasal in the later incarnations, seem to exist up to around 1250 or so, judging from some of the manuscript art. They seem to peter-out after that. One might also speculate that the cervelliere can be seen as the natural evolution of the conical helmet, and thus represent the 13th and 14th century equivalent of the earlier helmet.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't really see a helmet as being reverently preserved for generations. Sure, it's a valuable item and not likely to be tossed in a yard sale just because it's taking up space! But we do know that armor was often modified or "upgraded", and there are a couple helmets which were converted to kettles or buckets as well. Doesn't have to stay a helmet to still be useful! If Mom really needs a new cookpot...

Matthew
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,218

PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
I don't really see a helmet as being reverently preserved for generations. Sure, it's a valuable item and not likely to be tossed in a yard sale just because it's taking up space! But we do know that armor was often modified or "upgraded", and there are a couple helmets which were converted to kettles or buckets as well. Doesn't have to stay a helmet to still be useful! If Mom really needs a new cookpot...

Matthew


Ha! Laughing Out Loud Good one! However...if it's old enough and seen enough action, it might serve better as a spaghetti strainer. Wink ...McM

''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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