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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Helmets in "Gladiator"         Reply with quote

I am now watching "gladiator" for I do not know which time and I just noticed a fun fact.

In the scene where R.Crowe is choosing his helmet, before the the first Coliseum fight, the helmet stand features a viking /migration period helmet not unlike the Vendel one and right next to it is the Sutton Hoo helmet! WOW Eek!

I thought that was cool, regardless of the historical period discrepancy.

Alexi
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Helmets in "Gladiator"         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
I am now watching "gladiator" for I do not know which time and I just noticed a fun fact.

In the scene where R.Crowe is choosing his helmet, before the the first Coliseum fight, the helmet stand features a viking /migration period helmet not unlike the Vendel one and right next to it is the Sutton Hoo helmet! WOW Eek!

I thought that was cool, regardless of the historical period discrepancy.

Alexi


Why do they always have to do that? Maybe ol' Ridley is just trying to test our observation skills. Of course, you just noticed it after, what, 5 years? And now I'll have to watch again, myself.... Blush
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Helmets in "Gladiator"         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:


Why do they always have to do that? Maybe ol' Ridley is just trying to test our observation skills. Of course, you just noticed it after, what, 5 years? And now I'll have to watch again, myself.... Blush


It's on TNT every night.

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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right. One area in which Gladiator was majorly flawed was in the helmets. Very few, if any, helmets in this movie bared any resemblance to helmets which would have been current to the storyline -- like the Sutton Hoo and other Saxon/Viking style helmets, to include a couple Gjermundbu style helmets and the 16th/17th century Indo-Persian helmets used in the "Battle of Carthage" scene. Plus, most of the other helmets were pretty questionable as well, the most disappointing being the Roman Legionary's helmets (as in the opening battle). Those bear some vague resemblance to an auxiliary style -- but only vaguely. Other than that, they are quite incorrect. And let's not even discuss the Maximus "Thundercat" helmet....

There were some decent helms there, I must admit. A few -- a very few -- of the Gladiator's helmets were accurate (the Gladiator swinging the huge mace in the first Zucchabar battle had a decent one). The helmet of Tigris of Gaul, while not being based on any actual finds, was, IMHO, actually plausible. And the Praetorian's helmets were loosely based on a particular type of Cavalry Officer's helmet (as much as the Praetorians in this film are dismissed for their "overly black" SS/Darth Vaderesque uniforms, there were a couple things that were interesting about them, like those helmets and their large dished-oval "Republican style" scuta, which may be historically accurate).

All in all, Gladiator was a mixed bag, in terms of arms and armor. Some of the equipment was excellent and very well researched, some other stuff was good looking from a distance, and yet other stuff was just plain silly.... but it was an enjoyable movie in any case!

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 3:11 am    Post subject: Gladiator         Reply with quote

I hate to say it....But I actually worked as an extra in the opening sequences of Gladiator. Overall the kit wasn't too bad......for Hollywood. The better looking gear, from various members of various reenactment groups was carefully blended in. so it didn't stand out too much. The entire filimg period was a laugh. and hard work...Do you know how hard it is to get civiys to march in line?
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I actually caught that little irony the first time that I watched the movie. I find it both fun and irritating depending on how much I am willing to suspend reality for the day. I guess that kind of sums up my opinion of the whole movie.

David Evans wrote:
I hate to say it....But I actually worked as an extra in the opening sequences of Gladiator. Overall the kit wasn't too bad......for Hollywood. The better looking gear, from various members of various reenactment groups was carefully blended in. so it didn't stand out too much. The entire filimg period was a laugh. and hard work...Do you know how hard it is to get civiys to march in line?


There are worse admissions. My father was an extra in the movie "The Mountain Men." In the rendezvous scene, there is a 1/2 second shot of a man with a bushy red beard playing a harmonica; that man is my father. He is still embarrrased about his involvement in that movie to this day, and would probably kill me for mentioning it.

And do you know how hard it can be to get soldiers to march in a straight line?

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Matt G. Meekma




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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All right, at least i am not the only one that saw that.

I am surely not the most educated man when it comes to these things, but i am learning. I too was just re-watching the movie on DVD the other night and i REALLY had a problem with the Helm selection as well. Thought i might be a little bit out there but now i feel better. Crowe's helm while movie "cool" just seemed too complex for the time, like they were only one step away from plate in their armouring skills. But hey it is a movie and it entertained me, so i am not going to nit pick.

One other question, In the first scene in the coliseum, the battle of Carthage replay, Some of the Gladiators in Proximo's troupe were wearing Chain Maile shirts.... isn't first century Rome a little too Early for that? I only ask because i don't know and am hoping to find out...

Beer is God's way of saying He wants Us to be Happy. - Ben Franklin
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greyson Brown wrote:
David Evans wrote:
I hate to say it....But I actually worked as an extra in the opening sequences of Gladiator. Overall the kit wasn't too bad......for Hollywood. The better looking gear, from various members of various reenactment groups was carefully blended in. so it didn't stand out too much. The entire filimg period was a laugh. and hard work...Do you know how hard it is to get civiys to march in line?


There are worse admissions. My father was an extra in the movie "The Mountain Men." In the rendezvous scene, there is a 1/2 second shot of a man with a bushy red beard playing a harmonica; that man is my father. He is still embarrrased about his involvement in that movie to this day, and would probably kill me for mentioning it.


An even better anecdote - did any of you hear the recent confession of retired USMC Major Don Dunagan? This guy was the youngest ever drill instructor in the USMC. Three tours in Vietnam. And, when he was a child in 1942, ...the voice of Bambi.
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt G. Meekma wrote:
One other question, In the first scene in the coliseum, the battle of Carthage replay, Some of the Gladiators in Proximo's troupe were wearing Chain Maile shirts.... isn't first century Rome a little too Early for that? I only ask because i don't know and am hoping to find out...


Matt, I am no expert, by any means, but I understand that maille was around a long time (centuries?) before the typical lorica segmentata. The Roman lorica segmentata armor first appeared, I think, very early in the 1st century AD.

Also, the opening sequence of the film is set in the year of Marcus Aurelius' death, which would place it in, I think, 180AD, or second century AD.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt G. Meekma wrote:


One other question, In the first scene in the coliseum, the battle of Carthage replay, Some of the Gladiators in Proximo's troupe were wearing Chain Maile shirts.... isn't first century Rome a little too Early for that? I only ask because i don't know and am hoping to find out...


If memory serves me right, the earliest find of mail was form 3rd c BC, so mail should have been around used to some degree by some cultures by 1st-2nd c AD. Whether it was used in the manner fashioned by the movie.......I do not know.

Alexi
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:


If memory serves me right, the earliest find of mail was form 3rd c BC, so mail should have been around used to some degree by some cultures by 1st-2nd c AD. Whether it was used in the manner fashioned by the movie.......I do not know.

Alexi


Alexi-

In this thread: Looking for proof about mail, Erik D. Schmid references a find of 5th C BC. Still doesn't answer the question about Gladiator's presentation... Wink

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a side note, one of the things that really bugged me about this movie was all the talk about, "Let's bring back the Republic!" I don't think so. That idea had died out at least a hundred years before. The Senate wanted to kill Commodus, but the succeeding question wasn't bringing back the Republic, but who is going to be in charge now? Not long after Commodus' murder, the Praetorian guard auctioned off the emperorship to the highest bidder. From then on, the army decided who would rule.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
Alexi Goranov wrote:


If memory serves me right, the earliest find of mail was form 3rd c BC, so mail should have been around used to some degree by some cultures by 1st-2nd c AD. Whether it was used in the manner fashioned by the movie.......I do not know.

Alexi


Alexi-

In this thread: Looking for proof about mail, Erik D. Schmid references a find of 5th C BC. Still doesn't answer the question about Gladiator's presentation... Wink


So memmory did not serve me right Wink i was trying to remember this same quote but was too lazy to go and find it.

Alexi
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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt G. Meekma wrote:
One other question, In the first scene in the coliseum, the battle of Carthage replay, Some of the Gladiators in Proximo's troupe were wearing Chain Maile shirts.... isn't first century Rome a little too Early for that? I only ask because i don't know and am hoping to find out...


Not at all. The Roman military had been using maille well before they used segmentata, probably 3rd or 2nd Century BC, which they had copied (stolen?) from the Celts, who had developed it as early as the 5th century BC, if not earlier.... all those movies set in the late republic/early empire (Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, etc) showing soldiers wearing segmentata are in fact inaccurate, because they would have still been wearing maille at those times (hamata).

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Matt G. Meekma




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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cool. Thanks for the info. Always learning something when I come here. Happy Still got lots to learn. But hey i got time.
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

which is better: segmentata or mail?
"Only a fool would go after the singing sword!" - Bugs Bunny
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar, 2005 3:43 am    Post subject: Even worse.         Reply with quote

However...I do have to admit to having had the bad luck to be involved in a really bad film. I was unlucky enough to be paid, quite well, but still paid to work on” First Knight”. I think I can safely say a steaming pile of odorous excrement. Thinking about it the whole film makes “Arthur” look positively good and accurate. Thro the whole leather bikini thing still lingers. I always thought some costume designer had accidentally read an article about female Gladiators.
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Even worse.         Reply with quote

David Evans wrote:
However...I do have to admit to having had the bad luck to be involved in a really bad film. I was unlucky enough to be paid, quite well, but still paid to work on” First Knight”.


All I know is the local distributor of blue fabric made a killing in that one!

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar, 2005 6:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And the the lucky B******D who could re-sell the old Startrek outfit....
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First Knight.....man I hated that movie. I hate to say it but I think Excalibur is still my favorite Arthurian movie. When is someone going to cowboy up and make Cornwell's Warlord series about Arthur?
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