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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Viking "bird" sax         Reply with quote

Hello all,

I'm about to commision a replica of this Viking "bird" sax; shown on the bottom of this page http://id3446.securedata.net/valhs/history/ar...ng_sax.htm

Does anyone have any additional photos? Or know where the sax is? Or even additional measurements?

The sax is pretty odd looking, borderline fake.. I can't think of any others with bronze spacers like it. That being said, it's pretty darn cool!

Thanks!
Z
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Phil D.




Location: Texas
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Reading list: 56 books

Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu 03 Aug, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This isn't what you are in search of but I found this pic on Pinterest. Apparently someone made a replica letter opener...
"A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world." -- Louis Pasteur

"A gentleman should never leave the house without a sharp knife, a good watch, and great hat."
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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

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Posts: 213

PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Phil!

I had seen that, the image they use (on the left) is from the same Hurstwic article. If indeed this Sax is real, I find it weird that that one article is the only thing I can find about it. Sax handles are so rare.. I would think it would be more famous!!

Z
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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Viking "bird" sax         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
Hello all,

I'm about to commision a replica of this Viking "bird" sax; shown on the bottom of this page http://id3446.securedata.net/valhs/history/ar...ng_sax.htm

Does anyone have any additional photos? Or know where the sax is? Or even additional measurements?

The sax is pretty odd looking, borderline fake.. I can't think of any others with bronze spacers like it. That being said, it's pretty darn cool!

Thanks!
Z


I have seen this sax in one of David Nicolle's books - I think it is stated that it is in a private collection. While I have not seen those bronze spacers on a sax before, I have seen a few examples on pre-Viking Age swords, so this is an attested type of construction. I think you can see a couple examples in the later editions of Oakeshott's "Archaeology of Weapons"
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Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: raven seax         Reply with quote

Here's a detail shot of the hilt. No idea where I got the pic or where the seax is. Should be a cool repro to have made.


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raven.jpg

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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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Posts: 915

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just use your hands palm to make proportions.

use the bare minimum that is necessary to keep the non sculptural part in your hand.

As for distal taper you should try to have info from people who actually have measured comparable originals (Like Peter Johnson, he is active here).

I examined carefully only one Lombard (Langbarte) germanic scramasax and it had a strong distal taper plus hollow ground section. Even the tang had a strong distal taper and a triangular section.

But all the other I saw had triangular section and (no measurements though) not much distal taper on blade and tang.


The section and taper are the important values, for the rest you can adapt the design to modern hands dimensions.

These were artisan made products so you mustn't expect precision as in modern industrial production, just styles and often quite a bit of artistry that shows in unique ways
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William R. Short




Location: New England
Joined: 14 May 2007

Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
If indeed this Sax is real, I find it weird that that one article is the only thing I can find about it.


Why not ask Hurstwic directly?

The inquiry would come to me, so I'll save you the trouble and reply here.

The sax is currently in a private collection. There was an article written about the artifact in the early 1950s, if I remember correctly. There's been some additional unpublished research done since then.

Found in the same hoard were some magnificent wood carvings, some of which are in the hands of the same collector (and one of which is shown in the Hurstwic sax article) and some of which are in the collections of museums.

There is little additional information that I can share.

A postscript...

I forgot to mention that a recent analysis of the wood from other finds in that hoard makes it highly likely that the knife dates from the migration era.
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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William R. Short wrote:
Zach Gordon wrote:
If indeed this Sax is real, I find it weird that that one article is the only thing I can find about it.


A postscript...

I forgot to mention that a recent analysis of the wood from other finds in that hoard makes it highly likely that the knife dates from the migration era.


That certainly would be in keeping with the guard construction, the details of which are almost identical to the swords in Oakeshott's book.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional



Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Bird knife         Reply with quote

I would add to Bill's comments that if my information is correct this is a smaller knife not a large fighting sax.

Craig
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