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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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Posts: 257

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: UK - Law Proposal to ban home delveries of blades/swords         Reply with quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/17/ba...overnment/

Hi all, I am not sure if this will go through or not, but if it does it will really effect UK collectors of both antiques and modern swords.

For me at least, if this goes through, it would be the final nail in the coffin for me enjoying my hobby.
It already is a huge pain to ship swords here in the UK with almost no carriers accepting bladed items into and there is no way I can ever have swords delivered to my work address.. So the only way for me to trade swords would be to be in Person, which isn't great.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,808

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few lines of that stand out

Arrangements for how online sellers without physical stores can comply will be considered as part of a consultation to be launched later this year.

Any restrictions will be drawn up so that those who keep weapons for a legitimate purpose, such as cultural items or antiques, are not penalised.

Look, I know I don't live in the UK or Australia, or any other highly restrictive country or state. There had been a lot of chatter at SFI before the sword "ban" came into effect that amounted to restrictions, not a complete ban. I do know that there have been shipping threads recently enough at SFI and folk seem to be finding the shippers that do (such as Parcel Force aka the postal system). No doubt and no denial that UK collectors are often at wits end but so far, there have been some solutions.

I would be pushing harder politically to add amendments, just as 50 US states do, to have laws changed for the benefit of bladed commerce, use and even carry (see Texas to allow wearing big blades again). Form coalitions, create clubs, clamor for exceptions. Chat up Matt Easton on the Schola board or facebook. At any rate don't isolate yourself from others in the same situation.

Cheers

GC
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Graham Shearlaw





Joined: 24 Oct 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well that will do bugger all to the steady flow of kitchen knives being used by thugs.
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Johannes Zenker





Joined: 15 Sep 2014

Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It strikes me as kinda odd that a postal service could refuse an item based on it being bladed.

In Germany we have this thing called "Postgeheimnis" (postal secret) in our Grundgesetz (sort-of-constitution), which dictates that without proper cause (either due to immediate necessity or through official channels/with permission of a judge) the contents of any package transported and delivered by postal services are not to be scrutinized.

That means they wouldn't even be allowed to know what's in the box, and have no right to ask beyond whether it's properly declared as far as dangerous content (e.g. compressed gases, flammables etc.) are concerned.

Is that not the same in other countries?

(please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no legal expert)
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Jul, 2017 5:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is of course just a consultation, not even a proposed Law. Long way to go, plenty of time to fight. Home office need to be seen to be doing something but suspect there will be enough lobbying to dilute it down sensibly.
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jul, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johannes Zenker wrote:
It strikes me as kinda odd that a postal service could refuse an item based on it being bladed.

In Germany we have this thing called "Postgeheimnis" (postal secret) in our Grundgesetz (sort-of-constitution), which dictates that without proper cause (either due to immediate necessity or through official channels/with permission of a judge) the contents of any package transported and delivered by postal services are not to be scrutinized.

That means they wouldn't even be allowed to know what's in the box, and have no right to ask beyond whether it's properly declared as far as dangerous content (e.g. compressed gases, flammables etc.) are concerned.

Is that not the same in other countries?

(please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no legal expert)


I don't know of anything like this in the UK. Here couriers and especially the import inspectors just love destroying packages.

Honestly I am getting quite fed up of being treated as a criminal in waiting by the media and government.
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Julien M




Location: London
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Jul, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Griffin wrote:
It is of course just a consultation, not even a proposed Law. Long way to go, plenty of time to fight. Home office need to be seen to be doing something but suspect there will be enough lobbying to dilute it down sensibly.

Hum - given that the precedent legislation on the matter ended up being completely nonsensical (curved blade = bad, straight blade, fine ?!?) I have little trust in the outcome of this. Don't forget that this is a country where a pepper spray can is illegal too.
Brexit and now this - Britain is really starting to get on my nerves too...
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jul, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One would think your legislators would have more important things on their minds. It's like, "we can't fix those fire-trap buildings, terrorists with driver's licences, or over-the-counter products with concentrated acid in them, so lets make a show by taking away people's swords".
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Leo Todeschini
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Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jul, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J D crawford wrote
Quote:
One would think your legislators would have more important things on their minds. It's like, "we can't fix those fire-trap buildings, terrorists with driver's licences, or over-the-counter products with concentrated acid in them, so lets make a show by taking away people's swords".
All of which pales into insignificance next to the rapidly looming car crash of Brexit.

Brexit is why I am currently not worried about this; politically there will be no time to even breathe for the next two years and then we will be rapidly trying to work out how not to become a third world country, so I doubt this will get time on the floor for a long while yet.

Tod

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Graham Shearlaw





Joined: 24 Oct 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sun 23 Jul, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
One would think your legislators would have more important things on their minds. It's like, "we can't fix those fire-trap buildings, terrorists with driver's licences, or over-the-counter products with concentrated acid in them, so lets make a show by taking away people's swords".


2 out of the three are really hard to do, do we stop the sale of bleach and domestic cleaning products? Run back ground checks on every one doing a driveing test?
But making sure that building alterations are properly checked not to make the building worse with regards to safety should be done.

Leo Todeschini wrote:
J D crawford wrote
Quote:
One would think your legislators would have more important things on their minds. It's like, "we can't fix those fire-trap buildings, terrorists with driver's licences, or over-the-counter products with concentrated acid in them, so lets make a show by taking away people's swords".
All of which pales into insignificance next to the rapidly looming car crash of Brexit.

Brexit is why I am currently not worried about this; politically there will be no time to even breathe for the next two years and then we will be rapidly trying to work out how not to become a third world country, so I doubt this will get time on the floor for a long while yet.

Tod

Brexit will take far more then just 2 years, we will keep coming make for more treaty and deals on different issues for at least a decade.
Brexit is really a big wake up call to the rest of the EU about how unbalanced it economy and labour market is and how it really has to face up to the refugee crisis.
But its something that's been building from the last decade of austerity and long running political issues.
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johannes Zenker wrote:
It strikes me as kinda odd that a postal service could refuse an item based on it being bladed.

In Germany we have this thing called "Postgeheimnis" (postal secret) in our Grundgesetz (sort-of-constitution), which dictates that without proper cause (either due to immediate necessity or through official channels/with permission of a judge) the contents of any package transported and delivered by postal services are not to be scrutinized.

That means they wouldn't even be allowed to know what's in the box, and have no right to ask beyond whether it's properly declared as far as dangerous content (e.g. compressed gases, flammables etc.) are concerned.

Is that not the same in other countries?

(please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no legal expert)


In the UK, we have exactly the opposite. When putting a parcel into the UK postal service, you are asked to declare what the contents are at the counter.

That being said, I regularly ship and receive sharp blades of all sizes both within the UK and overseas and have no issues at all with ParcelForce or with UK Customs.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Hamish C




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 27 Jul 2016

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sounds really stupid, not thought out very well. What about movie swords and other sword like objects that won't function effectively as a sword or even hold an edge?
Perhaps a postal declaration... decorative metal artwork, might be enough to satisfy, the post office. At worst you might have to ship it with a slightly blunted edge.
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