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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Some NICE Viking helmet repros...         Reply with quote

Valentine Armouries just put up some new pictures of some really sweet looking Viking helmets.

http://www.varmouries.com/vcat_02.html

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Paul Mortimer




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are they based on their work for the film Beowulf and Grendel?


Paul
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Steve Fabert





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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Mortimer wrote:
Are they based on their work for the film Beowulf and Grendel?


According to their email message to customers:

"As you may have heard we have worked on a great viking film during the past 6+ months. We are now receiving many requests about viking helmets so we again having listened to you have put on our website a LARGE array of great classic viking helms. You can purpose any of these helmets in your choice of 16, 18 or 20 ga. "
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a lot of inaccuracies in these helmets if extant research on viking age helmets is used as a basis for critique.

On the other hand, I do think they capture the spirit of the migration/viking periods pretty well. I do like them for their own sake, but not as historical repros.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Gregory J. Liebau




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Patrick. They do look splendid, from a purely speculative point of view! Would I buy one? No, I'd get an equally splendid piece that I could use for living history reenactment! Hahah.

But, for anyone wanting to go do the Beowulf thing, or just look neato, I think those helmets are probably some of the most appropriate items for gettin' that done around here! I know Valentine has a good reputation, from what I've heard, so, seems like they will probably look as decent as the pictures do!

Cheers!

-Gregory-

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
There are a lot of inaccuracies in these helmets if extant research on viking age helmets is used as a basis for critique.

On the other hand, I do think they capture the spirit of the migration/viking periods pretty well. I do like them for their own sake, but not as historical repros.


Hey Patrick (or anyone else who knows, for that matter),
Could you expand on this? I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to Viking/Migration era arms and armor. (The butted mail is the only thing that I absolutely know is inaccurate)
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Paul Mortimer




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PostPosted: Sat 05 Mar, 2005 3:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Bill,
Unfortunately for us the Vikings weren't careless enough to leave many helmets lying around for us to find. There is only one that can really be called a Viking helmet and that was found at a chieftain's farm in Norway at a place called Gjermundbu. You can see it here: http://www.medsca.org/gjerm_helmet.html

There are pictures and objects from the Viking period which seem to show helmets being worn -- most, but not all, of these are not too detailed but look like Spangenhelms.

There are quite a few helmets from the 6th and 7th centuries which do exist. This is a pre-Viking period often called the Vendel period after a grave site in Sweden. The most famous of these helmets are from Vendel itself and a fairly close by site called Valsgärde. There is also a very nice helmet from Ultuna and many fragments of helmets have been found on the island of Gotland. The most famous of all this type of helmet is the one found in England, at Sutton Hoo, although there are indications that there may have been others in other parts of England.

None of these helmets are spangenhelms, (which is what the Valentine Armouries site calls them) some of them are very complex in their structure. To get an idea have a look at this site: http://www.missouri.edu/~rls555/SCA/research/helms/helms.htm

Havlgrimr has done a very good job of showing how they were made.

None of these helmets are Viking although there are many people who would like to think that they were.

Here is a site where you can see some re-enactors who know the difference between the Vendel and Viking periods:

http://www.barbarian-artwork.de.vu/

Have fun and I hope that this helps,


Paul
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 05 Mar, 2005 10:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey Patrick (or anyone else who knows, for that matter),
Could you expand on this? I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to Viking/Migration era arms and armor. (The butted mail is the only thing that I absolutely know is inaccurate)


Bill,

Most of these helms look more like psuedo-Vendel period helms. Paul has provided a couple of good links, particularly the barbarian artwork link. That will show you the proper proportions of a helm of this period. Compare that one to the VA ones of similar look, and the difference in proportion and decoration will be obvious. In the pic you posted you'll notice that the helms cheek guards appear to be fixed rigidly to the helm. These probably would have been attatched with a leather hinge, as in the Sutton Hoo Helm, or with a metal hinge, as in the Coppergate Helm.

This isn't a criticism of Valentine Armouries, just an observation. These patterns were made for the upcoming Beowulf movie, and concessions are always made for the sake of production. As such, these should represent pre-viking age helmets anyway. I think they capture the look of that period fairly well (at least they should on the screen).

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Mar, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys!
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