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Greg Putnam




Location: NJ
Joined: 06 Apr 2017

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 07 Apr, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Order of the Black Eagle Short Sword         Reply with quote

This is the second of two swords that were found in Germany during WW2. This sword has information it was presented to someone in 1896. This is a Black Eagle sword as the front emblem has the latin "Suum Cuique". The eagle head is most impressive. I cant find a complete list of all dignitaries of the order and was wondering if anyone has more information on this sword and who it was presented to.


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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Apr, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Order of the Black Eagle Short Sword         Reply with quote

Greg Putnam wrote:
This is the second of two swords that were found in Germany during WW2. This sword has information it was presented to someone in 1896. This is a Black Eagle sword as the front emblem has the latin "Suum Cuique". The eagle head is most impressive. I cant find a complete list of all dignitaries of the order and was wondering if anyone has more information on this sword and who it was presented to.


I have no idea if its a complete list, but the German wikipedia has 1078 names in alphabetical order.
Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kategorie:Ritter_des_Schwarzen_Adlerordens&pageuntil=Delbruck%2C+Rudolph+Von%0ARudolph+von+Delbr%C3%BCck#mw-pages

Sadly the only source I could find based on chronological order is this book from 1851.

Liste der Ritter des Königlich Preußischen hohen Ordens vom Schwarzen Adler
Verlagsort: Berlin | Erscheinungsjahr: 1851 | Verlag: Decker
Source: http://reader.digitale-sammlungen.de/resolve/...62193.html

So if you want to know who received it in 1896 its probably this book you need:
Hermann Hengst: Die Ritter des Schwarzen Adlerordens.
Biographisches Verzeichnis sämtlicher Ritter des Hohen Ordens vom Schwarzen Adler von 1701 bis 1900.
Festschrift zur Feier des 200jährigen Bestehens des Hohen Ordens. Duncker, Berlin 1901
.

I don't know of any company called Weber & Sauer.

1) It could be that the arms manufacturer Casimir Weber the Younger based in Zürich from 1895, when he took over from Casimir Weber the Elder and he could have traded knives, swords and guns produced by Sauer und Sohn in Suhl.

2) We also have a knife and blade maker from Solingen called Reinhard Weber JR. that says it has produced quality product the last 120 years.
So Reinhard Weber Jr. in Solingen could have made the blade and the hilt decorations was produced by Sauer.
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Fri 07 Apr, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For what it is worth I did find one recipient from 1896.

Martin Friedrich Rudolph von Delbrück (1817-1903): Prussian politician.
English wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_von_Delbr%C3%BCck
Family Delbrück (German wikipedia): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delbr%C3%BCck_(Familie)
"Preußischer Adelsstand durch Verleihung des Schwarzen Adlerordens in Berlin am 18. Januar 1896 (Wappenbrief vom 29. April 1896) für den königlich preußischen Staatsminister Rudolph Delbrück".
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Henry R. Gower




Location: United States
Joined: 09 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Apr, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Order of Black Eagle Sword         Reply with quote

I would suggest that the presence of the Black Eagle Insignia on this weapon, does not automatically indicate the owner was also a recipient of the Black Eagle Order, membership of which was very restricted, mostly to nobility. The Gardes Uhlanen Regiments Nos.1 and 2, were also allowed this insignia, and wore the star of the order on their headgear I believe also worn on their sabretache and saddle blanket. Now, these gentlemen were virtually all of noble Prussian families, but only a few of them were actual members of the order.
Henry
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Sat 08 Apr, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Order of Black Eagle Sword         Reply with quote

Henry R. Gower wrote:
I would suggest that the presence of the Black Eagle Insignia on this weapon, does not automatically indicate the owner was also a recipient of the Black Eagle Order, membership of which was very restricted, mostly to nobility. The Gardes Uhlanen Regiments Nos.1 and 2, were also allowed this insignia, and wore the star of the order on their headgear I believe also worn on their sabretache and saddle blanket. Now, these gentlemen were virtually all of noble Prussian families, but only a few of them were actual members of the order.
Henry


Thanks for this information, I had no idea about that.
It makes it more possible that this weapon belonged to a member of the Uhlan regiments, rather than an actual member of the order unless it has some provenance.
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Henry R. Gower




Location: United States
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Order of Black Eagle Sword         Reply with quote

You are welcome, Niels. I have observed today there are two sabers on offer on Ebay, both of which appear to be from yet another Prussian regiment, the Gardes du Corps, so the bodyguard of the Kaiser. They both bear a miniature of the Black Eagle Order Star, in German this is called an "auflage" with the motto "suum cuique. There is also yet another similar, saber in the "sold Items" section.
Henry
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Sun 09 Apr, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Order of Black Eagle Sword         Reply with quote

Henry R. Gower wrote:
You are welcome, Niels. I have observed today there are two sabers on offer on Ebay, both of which appear to be from yet another Prussian regiment, the Gardes du Corps, so the bodyguard of the Kaiser. They both bear a miniature of the Black Eagle Order Star, in German this is called an "auflage" with the motto "suum cuique. There is also yet another similar, saber in the "sold Items" section.
Henry


If the Corps Guards were equipped with sabers, the weapon Greg showed seems more like a Hirchfänger.
It's shape (blade) does look like a Hirschfänger-bayonet type also seen in Scandinavia, though this example is clearly no bayonet.
I would think for cavalry troops like Uhlans, sabers would also be more useful in combat.
I makes me wonder whether any Pioneer Battalions also had the Black Eagle Star in the German WW1 army? It seems something that would make more sense to have as a sidearm.

Checking here it does actually seem that the "Gardekorps" comprised all types of fighting men:
Cavalry, infantry, artillery, jäger and pioneers (even also aviation).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guards_Corps_(German_Empire).
The German wiki page does show the Black Eagle ("Gardestern") used by the Corps:
See: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardekorps
The Jäger battalion would likely use a more "typical Hirschfänger" style of weapon (?), so this weapon looks possibly like something an artillerist or pioneer would carry (sabers would be more in the way in their line of work).
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