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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Shoulder capes and their usage...         Reply with quote

In today's MRL' Deal of the Day' there is a 'Cavalier Shoulder Cape' up for grabs. Was this type of garment actually used in rapier fighting in classical times? Or, was it just purely a fashion statement? Really....this is a legit question! Question Could/would it have been quickly removed and used in lack of a parrying dagger--similar to a gladiator using a net--to fend off the opponents sword? I'm almost sure it's been done in the movies. Laughing Out Loud But, really...is there any factual usage? I've seen them used in bull-fighting. Is this where the concept originated? Just wondering... WTF?! ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most of the clothing I've seen at MRL was based mainly on the imaginations of the MRL staff. To be fair, some of it is based on movies. Best to clear any real history from your mind as you browse...

I historical terms, though, I suspect short capes, like any other clothing, actually had or started with a serious *clothing* function, however fashion may have warped it thereafter. Any use in combat was ad hoc, not part of the plan of the garment. Obviously this doesn't apply to clothing designed to be defensive in some way!

Matthew
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Real history is what I was wondering about. Is there any evidence of capes used in actual fighting...in historic times? WTF?! ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess I should say--Any *famous* examples from historical times. ? ....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Guillaume Vauthier




Location: France
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a whole bunch of rapier treatises that show the use of the cloak or cape in fencing. For example:

Salvator Fabris (1606) : here or here
Ridolfo Capo Ferro (1610): here or here
Achille Marozzo (1536)
Francesco Alfieri (1640)

But there's also medieval occurences, like this picture. I read somewhere (maybe in the Giganti's second treatise, where there's also some fencing with cloaks) that the shields and daggers were forbidden in some italian cities - so the citizens used their cape or cloak as a defensive weapon.
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THAT is what I was wondering about! Thank you! Happy ....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay, I'll admit that my favorite is Oliver Reed as Athos. He *always* leads with his cloak! Or with something else besides his sword.

Matthew
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Laughing Out Loud Yeah...I knew I'd seen it done in the movies! Laughing Out Loud I also knew there was historic evidence, just not where to look. I suppose it would work, for lack of a dagger or a shield of some sort. I have a short hooded cloak for fest-wear, but I'll leave the big, billowy ones to Superman and Batman. Wink Laughing Out Loud ....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Shoulder capes and their usage...         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
In today's MRL' Deal of the Day' there is a 'Cavalier Shoulder Cape' up for grabs. Was this type of garment actually used in rapier fighting in classical times? Or, was it just purely a fashion statement?

Since the ancient world! There are carved gems and stories in Greek and Roman authors about men defending themselves with a cape when no shield was available, such as during hunts or when they were attacked in their homes.

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...s-a-weapon

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/T....html#39.3

https://web.archive.org/web/20090920010659/http://www.drizzle.com/~celyn/jherek/SpadaEtCappa.pdf
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Mar, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Sean! Happy Great info there. I still think I'd rather have a shield though! Or at least a stout buckler. Big Grin ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

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PostPosted: Sat 15 Apr, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Launcelot caught in Guenever's chamber (first paragraph): http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mart/mart471.htm
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