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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 1:10 pm    Post subject: Hidden Treasure?         Reply with quote

Hi
Did any of my fellow Brits catch BBC2s 'Hidden Treasure' tonight? Saxon sword hilt find from Lincolnshire, suggested as Swedish gift. Very pretty work.
Geoff
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Lee Watts




Location: Wales, UK ,europe
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 144

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

damn i missed it again, thats the 2nd time i forgot it was on.
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lee Watts wrote:
damn i missed it again, thats the 2nd time i forgot it was on.


Some details here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/archaeology/trea...s_07.shtml
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Scott Bubar




Location: New England
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 120

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 8:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why Swedish?
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 11:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Bubar wrote:
Why Swedish?


Because of stylistic similarities with examples shown in a Swedish museum. It wasn't a hugely convincing argument, as regards both direction of movement and whether style or object was what travelled, but maybe, as with many TV presentations, we got a very abridged version.
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Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni


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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Aug 2003

Posts: 723

PostPosted: Tue 14 Oct, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff Wood wrote:
Scott Bubar wrote:
Why Swedish?


Because of stylistic similarities with examples shown in a Swedish museum. It wasn't a hugely convincing argument, as regards both direction of movement and whether style or object was what travelled, but maybe, as with many TV presentations, we got a very abridged version.


First, the British find:



Then a very similar scabbard mount from Sörmland in Sweden:



...so the "Swedish gift theory" isn't that implausible...
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed 15 Oct, 2003 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Bjorn
Thanks for posting the pictures. I agree that it is plausible, but on the basis of the (little) information presented in the programme, so would be a Saxon gift to Sweden, or maybe a North German gift to both places, or a Saxon seeing the Swedish sword and copying the style when he got home. Similarity doesn't prove type and direction of causality. I imagine there is more information out there to back up the suggestion, but they didn't present it. Whatever, it was very good work. They also showed a lovely silver piece of sword furniture that had been recently found. The stuff of dreams!
Geoff
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Björn Hellqvist
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Aug 2003

Posts: 723

PostPosted: Wed 15 Oct, 2003 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff Wood wrote:
Similarity doesn't prove type and direction of causality.


Nope, but frequency can. If a style is more common in, say, Viking Sweden, than in Saxon England, it can be assumed that Sweden would be the place of origin.
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed 15 Oct, 2003 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Björn Hellqvist wrote:
Geoff Wood wrote:
Similarity doesn't prove type and direction of causality.


Nope, but frequency can. If a style is more common in, say, Viking Sweden, than in Saxon England, it can be assumed that Sweden would be the place of origin.


Ageed, and there you have the advantage over me. I don't have your knowledge of the respective frequencies, but I'm happy to accept your confirmation of the theory's probable accuracy.
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