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Jonas Schnur





Joined: 26 Nov 2016

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PostPosted: Sat 26 Nov, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject: "Antique" Scottish Broadsword         Reply with quote

I bought a Scottish broadsword from an antique shop that I'm cleaning up. It's missing the fabric inside the hand guard and the tassel. I'm going to replace them and was wondering if there were any specifics about replacing them? For the hand guard I saw things ranging from just a piece of felt to leather lined with red fabric. I was wondering what is traditional. I also saw a variety of those and again wondering what's traditional. Finally I'm looking for some history on it. It's a wall hanger, nothing you'd take into battle. The only marking I've found is "India" stamped into the blade. So I'm wondering if there were specific companies from India that made/make broadswords and how old it could be? Also I imagine swords for ceremonial military use might be wall hangers so any possibility of that (India was part of the British empire so I thought it wouldn't be too outlandish for the Indians to be making swords for the brits). Any info would help! Thanks in advance!


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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 4:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi...

Cannot really see the sword very well from your photo. However, I can assure you that swords like this, for Scottish regiments, were not made in India. The basket, while it resembles the Pattern 1828 sword, is definitely not regulation. I suspect you have a modern made sword. These swords are sold by the thousands in the US and elsewhere and sold for as little as $30. They are not well-made, usually have the metal scabbard with rings for carrying, and the baskets may be coated with lacquer to prevent tarnishing of the basket. The blades show no sign of sharpening and are very thick on the edges. The fullers are poorly defined. The blade on yours, what I can see of it, does look a bit different from the run of the mill Indian made basket hilt but it is only possible to tell with a better view.

But, I did not answer your question, re: the basket liner. In the case of Indian swords of this type the liner is red cloth, some sort of felt usually. The cloth is held in place with a wire frame. You can probably make a frame out of thin brass wire or even steel wire, if it is flexible enough to be shaped to fit the the basket.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The fullered blade reminds me a bit of an older Windlass, before they 'upped their game'. The basket is a bit strange. I've seen one very similar on a Pakistan-made sword. The really weird thing is that elongated ball-headed pommel. WTF?! Never seen that on any other sword of this type. What you may have there is a hodge-podge of different swords put together into one. Lin is right about the liner....you could make one yourself pretty easily. If I'm right, the pommel should just unscrew....that way you can take the sword apart. Might make it easier to add the liner to the basket and then reassemble it. Cheers....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say to unscrew the pommel at your own risk. The threads on the tangs of these swords are not good and the steel itself is of poor quality. They are easily stripped and/or cross threaded. I have never seen one of these that was made in Pakistan but have handled hundreds of them from India. There are minor variations in the baskets, pommels and in the blades, but overall the pattern is the same. Nearly all of them are missing the down swept back guards which are one of the most obvious characteristics of Scottish basket hilts.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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David Cooper




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think to be strictly traditional the liner should be white doeskin covered on thre outer side with red felt.and edjed with blue satin ribbon. The shoullso be a fringe (wig) of srands of red silk. This one has a replacement cotton wig and the blue satin has faded to grey it should really be a bright sky blue.


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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: "Antique" Scottish Broadsword         Reply with quote

Jonas Schnur wrote:
The only marking I've found is "India" stamped into the blade.


that, unfortunately, is pretty good evidence that its about as much of an antique as I am.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't be too prejudice on 'India' Scottish swords. I have one that I bought at a resale shop years ago. It actually has a decent threaded-end tang, all one piece--no welded rat-tail, and the blade has unbelievable spring and temper. The basket of mine is solid brass with the forward guards and all of the correct piercings. It gets lots of compliments in the Scot's parade at Scarborough Fair. Big Grin ....as well as my knobbly knees under my kilt. Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud ..........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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K. Robert




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: "Antique" Scottish Broadsword         Reply with quote

JG Elmslie wrote:
Jonas Schnur wrote:
The only marking I've found is "India" stamped into the blade.


that, unfortunately, is pretty good evidence that its about as much of an antique as I am.


Well, how old are you then?
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 5:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
I can't be too prejudice on 'India' Scottish swords. I have one that I bought at a resale shop years ago. It actually has a decent threaded-end tang, all one piece--no welded rat-tail, and the blade has unbelievable spring and temper. The basket of mine is solid brass with the forward guards and all of the correct piercings. It gets lots of compliments in the Scot's parade at Scarborough Fair. Big Grin ....as well as my knobbly knees under my kilt. Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud ..........McM


Yes there are some fairly decent Indian-made swords, mostly from Cold Steel. What Jonas has appears to be one of those thousands of swords, made in small workshops throughout India and distributed around the world at bargain basement prices. Deepeeka makes or made a basket hilt similar to your description and that may be what you have. I have handled a few of those too and, while they are a cut or two above what Jonas apparently has, they have their flaws as well.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's true, Lin. I completely removed the liner from mine and very thickly coated the inside of the basket with black paint. When I removed the liner, it left gaps between the basket/blade/pommel. I made small 'washers' from leather and put them at the base of the blade, between basket and grip, and between basket and pommel. When I screwed the pommel down very tightly, the blade rings like a bell when you thump it. I like it....with a good polish of some Brass-o, it looks really nice. Not really all that historical...the forward guards should be flat, I believe. I'll keep it. Happy ...........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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