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Julian C.





Joined: 26 Nov 2015

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Sep, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Articulation of a Two Part Breastplate.         Reply with quote

Hello, good people. Iím making a two part gothic breastplate, last time I made one I just riveted the two plates together. Does anyone know about what type of articulation were used? I think Italians in that period used leather straps outside, but Iím curious about options that leave no leather exposed, more of a German style approach.

Clearer photo I was able to find on the subject:

https://es.pinterest.com/pin/182325484891358820/visual-search/?x=0&y=0&w=564&h=434

Thoughts?
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm.........I'm no armor expert, but I think some good thick leather strapping on the inside, as in the photo, would be your best bet. And...you could rivet through some nice brass, bronze, or nickel-silver rosettes on the outside to give it some gothic glamour. If you are planning on making a back plate to go with it, I've even seen some that are hinged on one side and otherwise secured on the other, thus opening up like a clam shell. Just my thoughts. I'm sure it will turn out nicely. Send photos of the making process and the finished product!!!. Big Grin ....................McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgot to say.....the reason I suggested the internal leather strapping is because this will give a little extra movement when bending over or twisting the upper body while wearing it. I would do the same with a back plate. Once again, just my thoughts. Good luck!....................McM
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Olivier L-Beaulieu




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PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is possible to put 3 sliding rivets on the breast plate (two on the side, on in the middle). Some others were not articulated at all. The 4 ways (sliding rivets, sliding rivet + straps, not articulated and rivet in the middle and straps) have been used at the end of the 15th century.
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Julian C.





Joined: 26 Nov 2015

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sure thing Mark, I'm a novice getting back to action after a long pause, but I'll be happy to share.

Yes, I found some images depicting the 3 sliding rivets, cool to know that the strap option is historical too.
For anyone interested here's a good photo I found of the 3 rivets articulation:



 Attachment: 65.1 KB
IMG_1712.JPG

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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh....Okay. I see how that works now. Pretty cool. I wonder what they used for lube to keep that stuff from squeaking and squawking. Some kind of lard or resin, maybe. Because I'm pretty sure it would be hard to sneak up on somebody! Laughing Out Loud .....McM
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That breastplate with the three sliding rivets is not real. You should go have a look at Goll's thesis so you can get a better idea of what was actually done. The majority of breastplates that are two piece and not solidly riveted together are made that way for adjustability, not movement.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James: Thanks for that comment. I'm in the same boat of trying to figure out exactly how these were constructed.
Looking back at the Dupras dissertation, I see this:

"At the opposite end of the spectrum only general sizes would have been required for munitions armour. Fit could be adjusted with straps or by moving internal leathers, a simple process for an armourer, or by changing the tightness of arming points. These low quality armours could not fit the wearer as well as the high quality armours, but since they were rarely full harnesses requiring the more complex interaction between plates and body this would not have been as much of an obstacle."


Do you think that the sliding rivets of the the plastron/plastron connection were meant to be left loose in use, or did armourers expect those to be firmly set once adjusted to the user?

I assume the sliding rivets of the fauld were meant to be loose in use.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks to me like the faulds would have to be articulated some how. You have to bend over at some point. It would seem like a good idea to me to have faulds or tassets or what have you actually separate from the upper body armor. But, then again, I'm just now starting to get into armor. Wink .............McM
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh....Okay. I see how that works now. Pretty cool. I wonder what they used for lube to keep that stuff from squeaking and squawking. Some kind of lard or resin, maybe. Because I'm pretty sure it would be hard to sneak up on somebody! Laughing Out Loud .....McM


There is no need for lube of any sort. If made properly the plates will glide effortlessley with barely a murmur. Harnesses should rustle when moving, not jangle.

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Julian C.





Joined: 26 Nov 2015

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PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What a nice resource, James!

Iím pretty sure you could compress the faulds by bending forward, Mark. Not entirely sure if you would need to be able to compress them sideways, if so, you would need leather on the sides as well. I assembled my breastplate today (no faulds yet), and tried moving around a bit, I really donít feel the need to put sliding rivets, itís pretty comfortable, enough to move naturally.
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