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Mark Goble





Joined: 27 Apr 2010

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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Hauberk with integrated coif. Lined or not?         Reply with quote

Hi, I have a question for anyone who has a hauberk with an integrated coif. Is your coif lined (either with leather or fabric), and if so, do you have problems with it rusting from rain/sweat held up in the lining? Do you do anything to get round this?

Thanks in advance,
Mark
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm by far no expert on this , but it would seem a bit impractical to have the whole mail lined. I presume you are talking about a one-piece liner that is sewn or otherwise permanently attatched to the mail. I would think it better to have a gambeson and a separate coif liner. If it were to get wet being all one piece, it would only add to the weight and make it that much more prone to rust. It's possible, I suppose, but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Anyone else?.............McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Ed W.




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 27 Mar 2016

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

For my 13th C hauberk with integral coif I use a separate padded arming cap. They're shown pretty clearly throughout the mac bible on figures with their mail coifs pulled back. My coif is constructed in a similar fashion to what's described here http://www.citedantan.org/site/index.php/fich...-de-maille (though integral with the hauberk). When drawn back it folds/lies in a very similar fashion to the images in the mac bible, so I'm pretty happy with doing it that way in terms of both functionality, and duplicating what we see in the manuscript evidence.

ed.




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Mark Goble





Joined: 27 Apr 2010

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the link to that website Ed, I'm really impressed with the way that coif has been made, and it is a shame that current manufacturers don't offer a similar design.

I am attaching a coif to a hauberk for an 11th Century Norman kit, so have gone for a coif with an open front and a square ventail that I pull up and attach at the sides of the face.

Any other opinions from anyone on whether to line the coif, and if leather or fabric is better?

Man thanks,
Mark
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whether or not you line your mail with anything, use 100% cotton lining. It's better at wicking away sweat by being able to 'breathe' better than synthetic fillings. And....you can just throw it in the wash. Happy .............McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wear a separate arming cap beneath mine.



I see no practical reason for lining the coif itself, nor have I ever seen any evidence to suggest this was done.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Mark Goble





Joined: 27 Apr 2010

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Patrick, and thanks Mark, useful info from you both.

Kind regards,
Mark
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Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark,
I think the "mail rusting from a liner" is an assumption that gets repeated often, with little or no practical experience.
I have about about a dozen arming coats with mail sleeves and some have been attached to the coats for 20 years and the coats have been washed many times. As long as they were not left in a pile, wet, the mail nor the cloth seems to suffer any ill affects. I also have a couple of aventails with silk or linen linings and again, no significant rust on the mail or rotting on the cloth.
The difference between unlined mail and lined mail as to how it lays on the body is significant. I have a hard time believing that mail was not lined with a foundation garment in most cases.

Chris
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2016 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Chris .....Exactly how do YOU 'wash' an undergarment with mail attatched to it ? I'm pretty sure you don't just throw them in the washing machine and set it on gentle cycle. Also, how do you get them dry? If you DO use a regular washer and dryer, I hope they are outside.....'cause that mail is gonna make a lot of noise going around and around. Laughing Out Loud ......Of course, you being from California, I guess you have ample sun to hang dry them. Just wondering. ...............McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wash them in a bucket, rinse them and hang to dry.
Chris
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